To further stretch the OP's question....How do they carry? Can they be CCW'ed with comfort or is it something else to stick out and dig into my side? Will they last whilst in the rain or crawling in the mud and dirt and pavement on an OWB holster?

You all have got me thinking about my next purchase (AGAIN!). These are questions and concerns I have about pistol red dots.

Red dots can make those that are already good shooters better if they commit the time to learn the system. They will not magically fixed a jacked up trigger squeeze, poor grip, abysmal stance, lousy drawstroke, or terrible decision making. They make the sight more visible and remove the requirement to align the front and the rear to get on target.

The technology is what interests me at this point. I have two Glocks with RMR's and a Sig 320ProCarry with a Leupold Delta Point. The RMR's have lasted three years on a single battery. I've had the Leupold for a month with no issues. The next thing is the Aimpoint P1 ACRO, which is designed with an enclosed emitter. This matters if you are in a wet environment and get water on the emitter, you no longer have a dot, you have a lot of them. Trijicon's SRO has a larger window than the RMR and is supposedly more intuitive. I have not put my hands on it yet.

I am taking two formal red dot classes this year with the idea of being able to understand it enough to create a policy for my agency and allow those deputies with privately owned red dot pistols to use them. When we were preparing to transition handguns in 2017, we looked at the Sig RX. At that time, the battery life was shit for duty use and the price was out of our range. I suspect that our next duty handgun (hopefully long after I'm gone) will be red dot capable.

Two trainers do a lot with red dot pistols-Modern Samurai Project (Scott Jedlinski) and Sage Dynamics (Aaron Cowan). If you are looking to figure this stuff out, looking at their media is a great place to start.

quote:

Originally posted by phydough:
To further stretch the OP's question....How do they carry? Can they be CCW'ed with comfort or is it something else to stick out and dig into my side? Will they last whilst in the rain or crawling in the mud and dirt and pavement on an OWB holster?

There are waterproof red dots, but not all are.

My RMSc is not waterproof on its own but I saw an article where someone packed petroleum jelly around the battery to give more protection.

With the RMSc, I can carry concealed as easily as before mounting it.

I trust the Aimpoint on my AR more than irons. Irons aren't some magical infallible item either. They can be bumped, bent, knocked off zero as well.

I had an NCO who gave me grief about running a RDS, said he preferred irons (former Marine as well). I basically said I respected his opinion, but the CCO is far superior and he is going to use it.

He came up to me later, thanked me and admitted I was right, it is far superior.

I had the same experience myself with IR lasers where I was the stubborn one and someone else made me use them. Yup, way better!

I haven't ran a RDS on a pistol yet, mainly just a cost reasons. Jerry's point about forcing good fundamentals on the draw makes sense and just bumped it up on my priority list.

Now days I try hard not to have strong opinions about firearms and accessories. All I care about is performance, I am always open to someone showing me a more efficient way. That isn't to say I am always changing things, far from it. I only make a change if it is to something very proven from multiple reputable sources.

Pistol RDS has reached maturity IMHO and will only increase in popularity.

I have a question about red dots. I will leave the brands out so we don't get any brand bias. I have 3 different RDS ranging from $50-$300. I honestly don't get the price disparity.

I have been shooting Red Dots since 2002 on every one of my pistols from 45acp down to .22lr as well as on all my AR-15's and absolutely love them.

I believe they have made me a better shooter and at night there's nothing better.

If anything they have increased my speed on target not slowed me down as others have stated.

Red Dots are here to stay - at lease on all of my weapons.

For those of you that have guns both with and without, how is the transition when going from the ones with red dots to the ones with regular sights?

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
I have a question about red dots. I will leave the brands out so we don't get any brand bias. I have 3 different RDS ranging from $50-$300. I honestly don't get the price disparity.

I put a bigger post on this over in the rifle section talking about budget choices.

There is a large difference.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...000049554#5000049554

Yes, red dots can break or fail. It's not a no-maintenance item. But there are millions of aimpoints in service with LEO and Military, general mass-issued items. They don't have bells and whistles that some other makes have, but they'll survive a TON of abuse. The same goes for the RMR, which is waterproof if mounted properly.

Change the batteries, make sure your equipment is tested and verified on a schedule of at least annually to ensure batteries are good and there's no corrosion or leakage and the dot is holding zero.

quote:

Originally posted by fiasconva:
For those of you that have guns both with and without, how is the transition when going from the ones with red dots to the ones with regular sights?

It's like riding a bike. I put the gun into my vision and front sight focus is second nature. Same as shooting a rifle without a red dot, and I have several of those along with scopes, red dots, LPVOs.

I do have to say I agree that for a gun that when you need it there is no time to change the battery or fiddle with the switch... solely relying on electronics in a gun is just like navigating a boat off the coast... a really bad idea.

I have a 320 compact with the new Romeo sites and I have to say that once I figured it out I shot a perfect score on a shooting test that very few do even well on. With that said, how I personally did it was of course perfecting my draw, grip, finger placement on the trigger and then sticking with the old method of acquiring the target with the iron sights and then just spending another nano second to place the red dot precisely where I wanted the round to go.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Call me an old fuddy-duddy, but I don't even quite trust RDS' on a rifle, much less atop a slide banging back and forth.

Lol, the entire US military seems to disagree with you man!

For quite a number of years, we had this same mentality at our academy. We had to remove our RDS from our rifles at the beginning of any class we took. We listened to a guy who was a cop in the 79s lecture us on how RDS were da debil. This went over well until the day that he ordered two KSP SRT troopers to remove their Aimpoints off of their 416s. They told him to fuck off. He booted them from class. The commissioner got a phone call from the governor. The commissioner kindly told the governor to fuck off. The next week the commissioner was fired.

Twenty years of bad training is now somewhat gone.

This is a damned good post. I can just see all this going on!

BTW, even Paul Howe now uses RDS on rifles, so the world is changing...

[quote]....How do they carry? Can they be CCW'ed with comfort or is it something else to stick out and dig into my side?
I've been carrying an RMR equipped gun for a several years now. I don't notice any difference in IWB carry and there certainly wouldn't be any in OWB carry. I have complete confidence in RMR reliability having shot the snot out of them for a long time and learned what preventative maintenance is needed. I don't carry OWB so I can't say anything about crawling in that mode, but IWB I've done just about anything you can do without issue. In any case all of my carry setups have backup irons and I could use those. The big annoyance on the current generation of RMR's is the battery life extender which is a PIA. I manage around it, but WTF to trijicon.
Many choose the Type 1 to deal with that.
I (and everyone I know) is faster and more accurate with a red dot over any course of fire with a variety of targets and distances. Even after 40K rounds of red dot rounds I am faster with irons in a first shot at <10y but I accept that for the extreme benefit of being both faster and more accurate at any distance beyond that and for every shot after the first at any distance. FWIW>

https://youtu.be/HloKf9WifJg

Good video on the subject.
I prefer iron sights but I have had one pistol with a red dot that I did like. It took a lot of practice to become somewhat good on it.
All up to the individual in the end.

Using a red dot on a pistol are nothing like using a red dot on a rifle.

Red dots on pistols require practice. Something most officers aren't going to do. Rather than bringing accuracy up, I see them bringing it down.

Not a chance. It may actually add time to shooting something, but it increases accuracy. FWIW>

There are now a lot of red dots on a lot of pistols. If they were going belly up on anything like a regular basis, especially the better known ones, we'd be hearing about it by now.

You can also install a set of suppressor height iron sights as backups.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
I don't doubt for a heartbeat they improve speed and accuracy. All I'm saying is I don't trust their reliability. That's why I have BUIS on my AR and my optic is on a QD mount. (Electronics fail. That's also why I still use a mechanical lock on my safe. I hate the verkakte thing, but I trust it.)

If I don't even trust them on my AR, I'd trust them even less atop a pistol slide. Never mind the added bulk. 99-44/100% of my carry is concealed. It's hard enough, and sometime uncomfortable enough to conceal a pistol as it is.

So, all this considered: I'm unlikely ever to mount an RDR.

Maybe when technology advances to the point they can project a hologram in thin air from an emitter the size of a rear sight, powered for years by a battery the size of the head of a straight pin...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BBMW,

I'm retired LE. My self and two others fired hundreds of rounds on our range. However, police officers are known to be really poor shots! Sure there's the exception. A reflex sight properly zeroed in would really benefit many in law enforcement. If a bright dot is selected after minimal practice many of these poor shots can become better and good shots can become experts.
I practice SD (Out on my desert, not in any

controlled range) and from draw to fire at a 10 inch steel gong target at 7 yards... 2 seconds.
Most SD shots (in my experience) are close up and
fast.
If barricade fire fight__the red dot can make some
very accurate shots.
You'll notice these type sights are on many of our military rifles in the mid-east. They've shown to produce a lot of head shots/ windows and a peeking
enemy at corners.
I was__in my active days quite good with iron sights on my pistols. Most of my fellow officers
were not. Most iron sights will co-witnes.
I predict reflex sights on LE guys will be common within five years.
Stay safe
Poli Viejo

Ive started running a dot full time on my 19 and after alot of experimentation I finally feel comfortable with it.

I have backup suppressor night sights in case of a failure. I've noticed it really helps for distance accuracy but up close and personal I'm still point shooting or just framing with the window. I'd say I'm faster with irons but if I punch out I dont have any problems finding the dot. I think it definitely made me clean up some bad habits I had so its actually beneficial for all my handgun shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by bcjwriter:
I struggle to find the dot when I should already be putting roads downrange.

To understand the value of RDS and how and pertains to you, you've to figure out why that is. The answer is upsetting to most seasoned shooters' egos so you've to arrive to the conclusion yourself rather than listen to some unknown dude online.

I am totally against them and think they are the stupidest thing in the world (until I can afford one/some).

They are fun to shoot, almost like cheating. I do not like seeing the dot bouncing all over the place. They need to add some kind of stabilizer or gyroscope into those things to correct for my bad aiming.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Call me an old fuddy-duddy, but I don't even quite trust RDS' on a rifle, much less atop a slide banging back and forth.

Lol, the entire US military seems to disagree with you man!

For quite a number of years, we had this same mentality at our academy. We had to remove our RDS from our rifles at the beginning of any class we took. We listened to a guy who was a cop in the 79s lecture us on how RDS were da debil. This went over well until the day that he ordered two KSP SRT troopers to remove their Aimpoints off of their 416s. They told him to fuck off. He booted them from class. The commissioner got a phone call from the governor. The commissioner kindly told the governor to fuck off. The next week the commissioner was fired.

Twenty years of bad training is now somewhat gone.

That sounds about right.