I am about to get into it on a G19, but now think about waiting to see how the SRO does in it's first 6 months, then get setup for this winter.

How would these RMR's compare to Crimson Trace laser pointer style devices?

Seems a lot of what is said about improvement in technique was stated about 10 years ago for those using the crimson Trace where the dot from the laser would help you improve draw , trigger pull etc.

quote:

Originally posted by radioman:
How would these RMR's compare to Crimson Trace laser pointer style devices?

Seems a lot of what is said about improvement in technique was stated about 10 years ago for those using the crimson Trace where the dot from the laser would help you improve draw , trigger pull etc.

I think you'll see that against a benign background, but it's easy to lose laser when you get off square range / targets, shoot on the move, etc. Where as the RMR / Red Dot is ALWAYS visible (regardless of poor technique, it IS there).

Laser also performs poorly in daylight, generally not adjustable for brightness, can be affected by the surface it's projected on, and arguably requires an abnormal sight picture (I understand that the red dot does this to an extent).

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
Laser also performs poorly in daylight, generally not adjustable for brightness, can be affected by the surface it's projected on, and arguably requires an abnormal sight picture (I understand that the red dot does this to an extent).

The lima365 (green) that I have is the same way. If the target is in direct sunlight, the effective range is about 15 yards.

I took a defensive pistol class about two weeks ago using my P365 with the laser. I was shooting the class with my iron sights, trying not to activate the laser, because I wanted to improve my basic skills. A number of times, as I was driving the pistol to the target, I accidentally activated the laser. It was within the "A zone" on the target. I ignored it while I was getting my sight picture. The laser was quicker than the irons for me.

As I stated earlier, the RMSc helped me with drawing properly to get my pistol aligned on target more quickly. That translated to the laser as well.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
Not a chance. It may actually add time to shooting something, but it increases accuracy. FWIW>

I think in a "oh shit" situation, the untrained won't be wasting time dot searching, they're going to use the window as a big peep and start pulling the trigger. "Round upon round, out they go, where they stop, nobody knows."

they could of course always use those irons that should also be on every red dot pistol (or rifle)....

There’s also zero chance the same “untrained” will use irons.

Choosing gear or making policy on what the untrained may do is never a good idea.

Our club shoots both open sights and red dots. The fastest times for five steel plates is using red dots. The $50 red dot sights will not hold up to the recoil when mounted on a slide. On a 22 revolver or a receiver mounted red dot where a slide is not moving they work fairly well. The long rail type C More is poplar.

Here's an interesting video from Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics. Food for thought.

Improved Handgun Optic Blockage Aiming Method

quote:

I'm retired now but if I want to see my front sight I need reading glasses. I doubt I will have time to don them during any type of self defense situation. The red dot solves my issue.

Exactly! Red dots are a Godsend when you get to the point where you need to use tri-focal glasses to see. Twenty years using iron sights in the military made me a true skeptic until I actually went to the range and tried a buddy's red dot. That very evening I bought the RX slide for my Legion. Go figure.


Legion P226 RX at 25 yards - first time with a red dot.

I'm a believer!I have a 320RX full size and compact. I bought the first one in 2016 and the compact not too long after.

I had a few problems with the iron sights coming loose and I've had to replace one Romeo1. I still believe they are far better than iron sights, for me anyway. Old eyes were making the front sights really blurry, even with glasses. The RX made me more accurate immediately, and it took practice but now I'm just slightly slower, but more accurate than with irons.

I'm carrying the compact now, in a Comp-Tac paddle holster. I still carry my 239 occasionally, but the red dot really works much better for me.

It takes a commitment but I think it's worth it. And fwiw, dry fire exercises really show what's happening when you're watching the red dot as you pull the trigger.

I'm a convert! After I purchased a 320RX shortly after release I purchased 3 RDS/pistol combos and added a couple to my small AR collection.

Spent the day in a Steve Fisher handgun red dot class today. It reinforced what all of the "yay" sayers in this thread are saying. Clean up your draw, learn to grip the gun correctly, and go. Focus on the target and let it happen.

I may write it up later, but it was nice actually being an "attendee" for the first time in a long time. Distribution of guns in the class was about 17 Glocks, 3 P320s, 3 M&PS, and a P10C. Dots were all RMR except for Romeos on two of the Sigs. The Yeti was shooting an insane Nighthawk 2011 with a Holosun 508T. I think the 508T has a ton of promise.

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
Spent the day in a Steve Fisher handgun red dot class today. It reinforced what all of the "yay" sayers in this thread are saying. Clean up your draw, learn to grip the gun correctly, and go. Focus on the target and let it happen.

I may write it up later, but it was nice actually being an "attendee" for the first time in a long time. Distribution of guns in the class was about 17 Glocks, 3 P320s, 3 M&PS, and a P10C. Dots were all RMR except for Romeos on two of the Sigs. The Yeti was shooting an insane Nighthawk 2011 with a Holosun 508T. I think the 508T has a ton of promise.

Cool. Any idea the difference between Holosun 508T and 507C?

I was told that the guts were the same and the only difference was a titanium housing.

Holosun is also releasing a 509T, the second optic with a closed emitter on the market, to compete with the ACRO.

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
Spent the day in a Steve Fisher handgun red dot class today. It reinforced what all of the "yay" sayers in this thread are saying. Clean up your draw, learn to grip the gun correctly, and go. Focus on the target and let it happen.

I may write it up later, but it was nice actually being an "attendee" for the first time in a long time. Distribution of guns in the class was about 17 Glocks, 3 P320s, 3 M&PS, and a P10C. Dots were all RMR except for Romeos on two of the Sigs. The Yeti was shooting an insane Nighthawk 2011 with a Holosun 508T. I think the 508T has a ton of promise.

It’s funny. I read a post the other day where a poster proclaimed that he couldn’t understand for the life of him why the red dot “forcing” a shooter to have a better draw and better trigger control “was a good thing”. He then posted some tripe comparison about automobile transmissions in a predictable, pedantic fashion.

I am a bit surprised when people are so blatant about being proud of a stagnant skill level. Mediocrity too has an internet connection I suppose.

Sadly, I realize that not a single gun I own will easily take an RMR / Red Dot without modification.

Unless I got one of those large brackets that extends upward from the under-frame rail. Which seems sub-optimal due the the added hardware's size / weight / looks.

quote:

Originally posted by Depami:
Cool. Any idea the difference between Holosun 508T and 507C?

Titanium body is probably the big one. The one Fisher had was the green reticle "Elite Series" model. Green reticle looked brighter and smaller at the same time. I'm sure there's some eight dollar words that tell us it's just like a laser in that green is just more visible. Window size on the Holosun is nice. Battery life claimed at 100k hours. I overall find Holosun's catalog difficult to follow.

+ on Radioman's expectations. At large gun show today felt and used exact-copy-plastic guns fitted with quality brackets such as Radioman described. Enough gap existed that one could continue to use iron sights. However, with the red-dot sight so far forward and so high, pointing was WAY off.

Have seen brackets that allow placement of red-dot sight near iron rear sight. One attaches to under-frame rail and another replaces left grip. Helps. However, it will continue to be desirable to have the dot far back and at almost same height as iron-sights.

Canik has probably lowest cost pistols able to receive red-dot at the right place.

After one competitor using red-dot sioght in Winter IDPA-like league continued to have zero points down, I expect the next league will see a bunch of red-dot sights in use!