While I have done some previous shooting "Back in the day" with a dotted Ruger Mark 2 and I have done a LITTLE shooting with other folks handguns with an MRDS installed I had not jumped into the pool myself.

Well, a little Christmas money and some Discover points later I picked up a Holosun SCS MOS...MOUSE...ASAP....you get the point.

Now I have yet to shoot it and will not be able to do so for a week or two but my initial impressions and thoughts are as follows.

-The unit is tiny and mates perfectly with a Glock slide. Like, re-label the sight with the Glock logo and I could see these being a standard Glock sight.

-While tiny it does have some heft to it. While not HEAVY by any stretch of the imagination it is tougher/denser feeling then it's size would let on.

-Stock Glock sights co-witness perfectly. No issues here. Heck I may have finally found a use for the stock "dovetail protectors" in backup sights.

-Finding the dot is trivial. I have never really had a hard time finding dots on handguns but I do have at least of modicum the fundamentals of shooting down and my presentations while certainly nothing to write home about have always been fairly consistent. The size of the optic and where it sits also nestles the dot right on top of the front sight post roughly. If you have any understanding of the fundamentals of shooting you should have NO PROBLEM chasing the dot on draw or transitions.

-This is my first green dot on anything and I like it.

-While I will ultimately probably settle on the plain old boring dot I do really like the "Eotech'esq" Dot/circle reticle and options are nice.

-I've had no brightness issues to speak of initially. Dark room to light room or outside is not an issue. I haven't really noticed the auto brightness it seems to just work. A quick click of the side button will however REALLY dial up the brightness if necessary.

-Install is no muss no fuss. Goes directly in the Glock MOS slot, no adapter needed. A little locktite, 15 inch pounds of force and you are done (in theory, we will see when I get some recoil under it).

-I am skeptical of the sealed battery thing but, assuming the documentation is even 70%-80% on point there should be little to no battery issues for a very long time. That said eventually the internal battery is going to die, that is the nature of the beast, how long that will be I don't know but at I figure by keeping the stock sights as backups and the fairly low price of the optic (in 1st world terms ) it still should make a decent optic for a good long time.

-I would like there to be some kind of charge indicator. There is a low battery indicator but a little light or series of reticle flashes when prompted to show charge would take some of the anxiety away in the early stages of use.

-Storage in dark conditions, ala handgun safe, should keep the sight going for A LONG TIME. based on what I am reading and the materials provided but we shall see.

-Initially I am going to leave mine off and let it soak up some sun for a couple days just to be sure.

-The sight doesn't change the handling characteristics of the Glock at all. While you can use the optic to run the slide, you can still easily grasp the rear of the slide. The gun still fits in the same stock holsters I have for it without issue, albeit with no dot protection or hood of course.

-My "use" for this dot is really just as a toy and if it shakes out as primarily a modern day "night sight" you can use in the day so to speak. That said I if this particular sight shakes out I could see running one more on another Glock since the "maintenance" of it really isn't a ton more than tritium night sights. A little window wipe now and then, maybe some charging now and then if it doesn't get shot but that's about it.

At any rate those are my INITIAL observations. Sight might end up being a huge POS and money burned but I have been thinking about tinkering with a dot and this one met alot of my want's (Size, ease of battery change (there is none), easy co-witness, cost etc.)

In a world where this was a professional "gunfighting" duty level optic I think I would want to go ACRO P2 as enclosed emitter gives me more of the warm fuzzies an Aimpoint has never let me down but in my low speed, high drag world this should do me nicely.

I will try to update after I get some recoil under it.

Take care, shoot safe.
Chris

This message has been edited. Last edited by: cslinger,

Ohhh, and for what its worth, I am neither a dot proponent or a naysayer. In my VERY LIMITED dot shooting experience on handguns I am really not any faster then I am with irons, but I am more accurate at distance. I do think optics on handguns will be the norm in my lifetime but I also think we are still in the infant to early adolescent stages of their development.

Pics are poop

quote:

Originally posted by BigSwede:
Pics are poop

It’s a Glock with a tumor, so basically an ugly girl with wart

If I have time I will post a pic.

BTW, I accidentally fell in to a handgun with a red dot and love it.

It started with buying and cheapy Cabelas micro dot a few years ago, figuring I would use it on an AR pistol, my Neos that has a top rail or wifes 10/22 etc. Never ended up mounting it

Toward the end of last year I bought a few pistols only because they were a steal. One of them was a Beretta APX RDO for under $300 at a pawn shop. I decided to put that red dot on it, the Beretta came with several mounting plates, easy peasy

It is a fun gun to shoot with it.

While not on a pistol yet (I'm still backwards, apparently), I'm liking a green dot on a rifle. I think I'm a convert. Green dot all the things.

quote:

I'm still backwards, apparently)

I am still far and away a DA/SA iron sight troglodyte. I might as well be using a club and an atlatl. . Hell, I am even a comparatively young Luddite.

I cannot get pictures of the reticles as they are just blurring on my phone. If you've used an Eotech you've seen the dot/circle reticle. Remove the dot for the circle only reticle and of course just the dot only reticle.

This should show how low it sits though. Sights are stock dovetail protectors.

I was there a few years ago and got an RMR for a pistol I still own. Then the ammo shortage happened.
I've been iron sights since the late 80's and I knew I would have to put some time in with it. Didn't happen so I sold it. Dumbass me should have kept it because I bought another one to put on an offset mount on my AR. Now getting used to that and find it's easier. Backwards too I guess.
None of my carry pistols are optic cut but I get it.
Nice set-up.

One more quick observation. Using a flashlight, at least one in the 500-600ish lumen realm the dot did not wash out. The only thing that washed the dot out was if the light reflected back off of something highly reflective like a mirror, in which case if the beam centered on the dot it would wash out, of course you are basically flashing your eyes as well and this is all part of light discipline etc. but in that fairly extreme case the dot all but disappears while irons are still vaguely available (between the “spots” )

Again I cannot speak to actual use as I am just getting familiar with the device and getting some reps in so to speak. At least in a normal suburbanite home setting dot brightness and auto brightness is seemingly a non issue. Now what about Arizona sunshine???? I dunno.

Couple other observations. There is a battery compartment that looks like it COULD be accessed if necessary. Looks like screws covered with an enamel or plastic covering. If the current draw vs. charge is to be believed this is a compelling bit of tech.

One thought comes to mind. I am shocked this seems like the only native MOS compatible sight. Seems to me that the Glock MOS and whatever the 320 is doing have to be far and away the most common optics cuts (from OEM) out there. I would think most manufacturers would want to have a Native MOS and SIG model and let there be plates for everything else. Now I do realize MRDS adoption is minuscule in comparison to normal irons but it still SEEMS like this would make business sense. I do realize there are plenty of other guns out there that are as good if not better then those that rhyme with “Pig” and “co…..errrr HEN” but those seem like the 800lb gorilla’s in the market. Shocks me the RMR doesn’t have a native Glock or SIG model.

I tried a dot for a couple months. Really wanted to like it but never quite took to it, and none of my other guns are dot capable, so sticking with irons myself. I can see the potential, but after all these years with irons, and until my eyesight goes further, I’m going to stay the course.

quote:

Originally posted by 94hokie:
I tried a dot for a couple months. Really wanted to like it but never quite took to it, and none of my other guns are dot capable, so sticking with irons myself. I can see the potential, but after all these years with irons, and until my eyesight goes further, I’m going to stay the course.

I am of the mind that while optics on rifles were literally a paradigm shift, optics on handguns are an absolute benefit but nowhere near the game changer mass adoption of rifle optics was. I do however like having hands on experience across the board.

I am very much liking this setup but it’s not very likely I am going to run out and go all in on pistol optics across the board.

Nice, I'll be following this with interest as I'm really intrigued by the SCS. I'm not a Glock guy, but I'm hoping Holosun does something similar for some other platforms before long. I'm interested to hear how the battery holds up under regular use and if the solar charging functionality can keep up. Also, the auto brightness adjustment, which is crap on most dots, but supposedly improved on the SCS.

IMO direct mount is a huge plus, as is the low-profile that allows you to avoid supressor-height sights. I really want to try one.

ETA: if you get the chance to take a course on the red dot, do it. I flailed around for a while trying to figure it out on my own and from just reading stuff online, but it was taking the Sig Academy red dot instructor course that really made it click.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:

quote:

Originally posted by BigSwede:
Pics are poop

It’s a Glock with a tumor, so basically an ugly girl with wart

Looks like that old girl now has a hump on her back. It's a good thing she can cook.

Nice setup and review, I look forward to hear how you feel after a few range sessions.

I've been thinking about the Holosun SCS for a G41 MOS pistol I have as a range toy. I like that it mounts directly without plates and sits low and is fairly compact.

I've got a Gen5 G34 MOS with a 507C that runs great at matches. Holosun really makes a good product for the money.

I finally got some recoil under this thing so to speak. I just got back from the range and here are some quick observations. As always let me preface by saying I am not a door kicker or LEO or any other career individual where violence is part of my job, may that ever be so. So keep in mind my observations come from a gun geek who's primary "practical" mission for a handgun is home defense.

-The SCS held up fine. No issues whatsoever of loosening, electronics failures or any other issues at all.

-The Glock 45 handled the dot just fine. No issues, failures etc.

-Finding and re-acquiring the dot was absolutely no issue at all. I don't have the recoil control to keep the dot in the window when shooting but it nestles right back in there no muss no fuss. I believe if you have good fundamentals transitioning to a dot might require a little re-training but I would imagine you would be fine. It was as easy as running irons for me.

-Out to about 10 yards or so its basically like shooting a nice set of irons for me. I am not really any faster but may be a hair more accurate.

-Longer ranges 15-20+ yards is where it starts to shine and add value in my experience.

-I still stand by the fact that a good set of irons with a high viz front sight is still perfectly fine in every way until you start to stretch the distance.

-I would, however, imagine the dot would aid in shooting on the move or from odd positions. In dryfire practice of these things that seems to bear out.

-For my use as a potential HD type firearm the dot is the best damn set if night sights EVER

All in all, I don't have a ton of time behind it but most of my assumptions bore out. I do believe that if you don't have a good basis in the fundamentals of grip, presentation and recoil control you may likely be frustrated chasing the dot, if however you do have those things, I don't believe the learning curve to be all that difficult.

Most importantly in my world it's a lot of friggin fun!

I have been wanting to put more time back into strikers and Glocks and this thing will definitely help in that regard.

All in all for the initial impressions piece of this thing I really only have positive things to say. Of course that could change over time but initial impressions are good.

Take care, Shoot Safe
Chris

I love these sights. Direct mount and low. I have never bought a MOS gun but this may make me. I heard they were talking about a VP9 version, I would buy one of those in a long side version yesterday.

I like how it blends right into that Glock. Suppressor height sights suck. This is sweet.

Thanks.

Some more observations on my dot journey.

Today I ran 50 rounds through the Glock 45 and 50 rounds through a P2000 V3 with a 17 round mag. They are similar in nature being a full sized grip with a compact slide.

Glock 45 with SCS
-I grouped very well at 15 yards for me and the dot made shooting at this distance easier, no denying this. I dropped 4 or 5 out of the 10 ring from a box of 50 on a roughly 10x14ish target.

-I am fairly Glock agnostic. I think they are fantastic firearms and I have carried and used them for SD. They don't generally get my gun guy juices flowing though. That said I LOVE this Glock 45. Its my favorite Glock I've ever owned. It just feels RIGHT.

HK P2000 V3 3 dot night sights
-I dropped about 9 out of the 10 ring on the same target as above. Wider dispersion as well. Now most of those that I dropped were a bit low and right in the 9 ring with 1 in the 8 ring. Some of this I attribute to coming off of just shooting the Glock (different angle, different trigger mechanism etc.) That said while 40-41 of my box of 50 were clustered nicely in the 10 ring there is no denying at 15 yards the dot is easier then 3 dot iron sights.

-I still LOVE my P2000's and I still shot very well for me, who generally sucks, with the irons at 15 yards.

All in all some dot specific observations.
-Getting back on target is faster because you have this glowing orb right there vs finding/settling in your front sight again.

-The dot is still not a paradigm shift at these ranges. Its nice, its helpful but IMO its not NECESSARY so to speak.

-Some of the downsides of the dot so far are it requires a bit more maintenance, clearing the lense of powder residue (not a lot just a few particles here or there but since I am cleaning the gun it gets cleaned).

-The SCS doesn't have a removable battery. If the documentation is correct it uses about 33ish micro amps with the dot on sitting in the dark in a about a week. A full battery can theoretically keep the sight in this state for basically ever. Now since I am THAT GUY I find myself wanted to give it a little charge weekly so I have been putting it under a 1500-1800 lumen lamp 1x a week for a few hours. If I believe the documentation that should largely take care of the weekly draw while in a dark safe. This is more maintainance however. I know probably a little OCD but I am just giving MY impressions.

-I have found that I sometimes throw the dot into its overdrive mode by running the slide from the rear in the "normal way" I have had to get used to running it by using the front of the optic or front of the slide. Not a big fat hairy deal just something to be aware of with this sight.

So where am I as far as pistol dots? Honestly I am bit conflicted. Part of me loves the damn thing and it really does have tangible benefits. Part of me likes old school, iron sighted, boring, luddite sights that require absolutely no thought at all.

So my observations so far as a lay person are as follows. IF you have the desire and disposable income and you are willing to put a little extra time into those guns (cleaning, batteries etc.) then I say go for it. You will absolutely see tangible benefits from a MRDS.

If, however, you are on the fence because all the cool kids and media and operators are telling you you can never possibly win a modern gunfight without one and you are scrambling to figure out how to get one so you can survive.......take breath and realize you can run irons pretty darn well at most practical pistol distances and you will likely be just as fine with irons and training as you would be with a dot and training. (Murphy's law disclaimer, bad luck, statistical anomalies aside, some assembly required blah blah)

Anyway keep in mind these are just some observations from a dumbass on the interwebz who barely knows to keep the pointy flashy end towards the target. So grain of salt everybody.

Take care, shoot safe,
Chris

quote:

I have found that I sometimes throw the dot into its overdrive mode by running the slide from the rear in the "normal way" I have had to get used to running it by using the front of the optic or front of the slide. Not a big fat hairy deal just something to be aware of with this sight.

Curious what you mean by this. What's the "overdrive" mode, and how does racking the slide cause it to do this? Are there buttons on it that you're bumping when you grab it, or does it have something to do with the light sensor being blocked? Asking because I kind of want to try the SCS, but don't have a Glock, nor am I completely familiar with all the bottonology on the optic.

One other thing I very much like about the dot is the ease of exact zeroing.