pedropcola, take it easy, please. Just let it go.

Ok

I for one cannot afford (justify) a high-end firearm like the Phoenix but I sure enjoy the posts and pictures by those of you who can. Please keep them coming.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
I for one cannot afford (justify) a high-end firearm like the Phoenix but I sure enjoy the posts and pictures by those of you who can. Please keep them coming.

I certainly will sir and thank you

Why people of a certain mindset read my threads, I have no idea, but it makes for damn good free entertainment.

Bac, I enjoy your posts and I would not be aware of a number of obscure guns if you hand not posted about them.

Also $3500 isn’t cheap but it certainly isn’t what I would call an outrageous amount for a firearm. One could easily spend that much on a number of different rifles, pistols or shotguns.

One other thing to consider. Many people get locked into the price of a gun instead of a price of ones collection. They have a $500 gun syndrome. They will buy 50 $500 guns over there lifetime but if you ask them why they never bought a $3500 pistol they say “I can’t afford that”. Maybe owning a $3500 pistol is a better choice than 7 Glocks. I mean if you collected cars would you own 50 Honda Civics? Maybe buy the Honda Civic, then enjoy something built on a different level too. Maybe buy your Glock or your “serious” gun and instead of stockpiling $500 striker fired pistols save up and buy something on a whole different level.

quote:

Originally posted by AJD:
Bac, I enjoy your posts and I would not be aware of a number of obscure guns if you hand not posted about them.

Also $3500 isn’t cheap but it certainly isn’t what I would call an outrageous amount for a firearm. One could easily spend that much on a number of different rifles, pistols or shotguns.

One other thing to consider. Many people get locked into the price of a gun instead of a price of ones collection. They have a $500 gun syndrome. They will buy 50 $500 guns over there lifetime but if you ask them why they never bought a $3500 pistol they say “I can’t afford that”. Maybe owning a $3500 pistol is a better choice than 7 Glocks. I mean if you collected cars would you own 50 Honda Civics? Maybe buy the Honda Civic, then enjoy something built on a different level too. Maybe buy your Glock or your “serious” gun and instead of stockpiling $500 striker fired pistols save up and buy something on a whole different level.

Thanks. Yes, the steel model is generally $3700-$4300, depending on exact configuration. The Lightweight models are less. I think the Ultra Light can be had under $3000.

I'd have to say that the one currently produced "production" pistol that gets the closest to the Redback's quality level are the new Walther Q5's from their Meister Manufaktur custom shop.

Below is the Black Tie model along with the Redback...

Some folks enjoy firearms as more then weapons. As far as a weapon goes one can easily spend $500 and have an extremely capable weapon.

Some folks take pleasure in the little things the, attention to detail, the craftsmanship, the things that go beyond the intrinsic value.

I, myself, call those guns kinetic art. My own personal example is an ED Brown 1911. It is an extremely nice 1911. The attention to detail, the absolute mechanical precision etc. etc. it’s a helluva nice gun and I am sure would make a fine weapon but there are SOOOO VERY MANY guns that are equal to or patently better at being a defensive weapon then that Brown, but that’s not why I have it and not specifically what I appreciate about it.

BAC, over the years and his posts seems to appreciate those kinetic bits of art in his guns. If you get it, you get it. If you don’t that’s ok and you are absolutely correct that from a pure weapon to weapon performance envelope there are plenty of cheaper alternatives that are just as capable of not more so, but that likely isn’t the point in a given persons enjoyment.

Some of us own many of our guns purely for our enjoyment of the art, or history or craftsmanship or old world ways etc. etc. I am sure we all have that “Glock” if you will that we use for our “serious social” gun but the others are more then JUST GUNS to us.

I don’t see it as swinging dicks as much as I see it as sharing a passion and like most passions sometimes we don’t get it and that’s ok but we should still appreciate the passion itself.

…….all that bloviating and truth be told I was never a Sphinx fan from way back. They never set my passion or practical sides on fire.

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
So, Solothurn -> Sphinx -> Phoenix?

Eh, not really. Solothurn was the place where the AT84 was made, but that gun was completely transformed when Sphinx bought it. In addition to that, that was old Sphinx ownership that bought the AT84.

I have some old Sphinx pistols. They are very nice, just different.

the grip lower on your Phoenix is identical to the Sphinx SDP which also made it's way onto the B&T USW so there's commonality amongst suppliers or it's the same people.

quote:

Originally posted by AJD:
One other thing to consider. Many people get locked into the price of a gun instead of a price of ones collection. They have a $500 gun syndrome. They will buy 50 $500 guns over there lifetime but if you ask them why they never bought a $3500 pistol they say “I can’t afford that”. Maybe owning a $3500 pistol is a better choice than 7 Glocks. I mean if you collected cars would you own 50 Honda Civics? Maybe buy the Honda Civic, then enjoy something built on a different level too. Maybe buy your Glock or your “serious” gun and instead of stockpiling $500 striker fired pistols save up and buy something on a whole different level.

There are a lot of Civic variants and things you can do to a Civic, so yes, I could see why someone might collect 50 Civics instead of one or two Ferraris.

Different strokes for different folks.

I enjoy an occassional glass of wine, but I am by no means an oenophile. I don't get anymore enjoyment from a $10 bottle of wine than I do a $100 one.

I collect pocket knives. One of my favorites is the Kershaw Leek. I have at least a dozen Leeks in different variants/colors/editions. They run about $40-60 each. Instead of a bunch of leaks, I could get a premium $400-500 knife. Custom knives are nice, and I don't knock them or those who buy them, but I also don't enjoy them anymore than a $100 knife.

There is such thing as a point of diminishing returns.

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:

quote:

Originally posted by AJD:
One other thing to consider. Many people get locked into the price of a gun instead of a price of ones collection. They have a $500 gun syndrome. They will buy 50 $500 guns over there lifetime but if you ask them why they never bought a $3500 pistol they say “I can’t afford that”. Maybe owning a $3500 pistol is a better choice than 7 Glocks. I mean if you collected cars would you own 50 Honda Civics? Maybe buy the Honda Civic, then enjoy something built on a different level too. Maybe buy your Glock or your “serious” gun and instead of stockpiling $500 striker fired pistols save up and buy something on a whole different level.

There are a lot of Civic variants and things you can do to a Civic, so yes, I could see why someone might collect 50 Civics instead of one or two Ferraris.

Different strokes for different folks.

I enjoy an occassional glass of wine, but I am by no means an oenophile. I don't get anymore enjoyment from a $10 bottle of wine than I do a $100 one.

I collect pocket knives. One of my favorites is the Kershaw Leek. I have at least a dozen Leeks in different variants/colors/editions. They run about $40-60 each. Instead of a bunch of leaks, I could get a premium $400-500 knife. Custom knives are nice, and I don't knock them or those who buy them, but I also don't enjoy them anymore than a $100 knife.

There is such thing as a point of diminishing returns.

I’m always quality over quantity, but to each their own. Having tons of quantity of inexpensive stuff doesn’t do it for me, because it’s only as good as the lowest common denominator, so to speak.

I believe in diminishing returns with certain guns, but Phoenix hasn’t reached that, in my opinion. In fact, it’s nicer than several guns costing a good deal more.

Not saying I don’t like inexpensive pistols, because I do. I own some and even carry a Springfield Hellcat. My point is that a good quantity of them doesn’t take the place of one really nice gun, in my book.

My motivation for buying expensive guns is simple; first of all, I like quality. Second, I live in the Netherlands and am only allowed 5 firearms, only for competition shooting. So the 5 I own are of high quality.

Bac, what are your thoughts on the P210A Target vs. the German X-Five guns in terms of build quality? Sorry for the side bar.

quote:

Maybe owning a $3500 pistol is a better choice than 7 Glocks.

Always this depends upon one's perspective. I can appreciate both views, but if I had to choose I'd rather have the seven Glocks. When one breaks I don't feel THAT bad, plus I've got six backups to fall back on. When a $2000 gun (let alone a $3500 or $4000 one) goes all temperamental on me, I would generally come away with feeling that I wasted a bunch of Benjamins on one expensive hunk o junk. That's how my brain thinks; I won't make excuses for that or conversely, for the gun.

Porsches are bad enough as it is but yes, I would make an absolutely terrible Ferrari or Lamborghini owner.

^^^ My brain says the other 6 Glocks will be collecting dust as backup inventory. Nope, I'm a value buyer period. Meaning I buy a gun and if it's exceptional, I might buy another regardless of the price range. In over 30 years of gun collecting, I've only done that twice.

I'm fortunate that I have disposal income that allows me to be agnostic (to a point) in terms of price and I look for certain attributes and then the price. If the price seems unreasonable based on differences in those attributes vs other options, then I don't buy the product. This philosophy goes well beyond firearms, which is probably why when I step into a store I know as much if not more than the average salesman of said product(s). A value buyer also retains future options by preserving cash, at least more so than the average gent.

And now back to the Swiss Phoenix program...