I bought a couple of these recently and I'm extremely impressed. Phoenix was started a couple of years ago by the former owner of Sphinx. Their shop is in Interlaken, Switzerland.

They have four models currently:

Fusion - Duty pistol
Redback - Competition pistol
Drake - Limited pistol
Raptor - Open gun

Unfortunately, the Drake and Raptor aren't approved for import yet, but I'll have a Drake as soon as they are. The Fusion is a new and improved Sphinx SDP, while the Redback is a new and improved Sphinx 3000.

The Fusion is available in a Compact, Tactical, or Standard. The Tactical is basically a Compact with some additions. The Standard is the full size gun. All Fusions are a combination of three materials. The slide is steel, the frame is aluminum, and the grip is polymer. Its also available in all black or with an FDE frame and grip. Mine is an all black Standard (ST) model.

The Redback is available in DA/SA or SAO. Its also available in all steel or a couple combinations of steel and aluminum. The Light has an aluminum grip. The Ultra Light has an aluminum grip and frame. They are also available in all silver, all black, or two tone. Mine is a silver, all steel, DA/SA pistol.

Build quality is second to none. I'm fortunate enough to own examples of all the high end pistols built over the past several decades and I would put the Redback right at or near the top of the list. Its certainly nicer than any other high end "production" or semi custom pistol I have in my collection. Even Sig Mastershop pistols and Smith & Wesson PC pistols can't match the quality of the Redback. I have Pardinis, high end CZ's, Alien Pistols, many high end 1911's, and a bunch of others to compare it to. They don't match this gun. That's how good it is.

The Fusion uses less expensive materials and has less machining, but the build quality and fitting is just as nice as the Redback.

I know Phoenix is relatively unknown. They are a small company that only produces a limited amount of guns per month and per year. However, I'm here to say that you won't find a nicer production/semi custom semi auto handgun produced today.

Does anyone else have hands on experience with these pistols?

Enjoy the pics...

I don't have one, but might have to locate one or two. What CZ grows up to be, when it's not turning into a DW.

A thread below on the same (albeit without the information and nice pictures):

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...0601935/m/1580091384

I think I have a very early one. .25. auto.



I played with those at the last NRA show and, was thoroughly impressed. They are beautiful.

So, Solothurn -> Sphinx -> Phoenix?

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
So, Solothurn -> Sphinx -> Phoenix?

Eh, not really. Solothurn was the place where the AT84 was made, but that gun was completely transformed when Sphinx bought it. In addition to that, that was old Sphinx ownership that bought the AT84.

I have some old Sphinx pistols. They are very nice, just different.

Brian,

Besides the stippling on the frame of the Phoenix Fusion and FO front site (the latter may/may not be an enhancement for some), what exactly is improved versus the Sphinx SDP?

Plenty of experience with Swiss made “Kriss” SDP’s, both the compact and subcompacts. Superb pistols but Kriss fucked it all up.

I own a Redback (all steel, all black SAO) for a year now. It indeed is second to none. I also own a Smith 5906 PC Target Champ, a SIG P210 Legend and a SIG X-Five and X-Six. These fine guns don’t come close to the Phoenix.
Next up is a Drake.

The Redback is a good-looking pistol. Would be even better looking with no rails. And what’s the point of the stippling on the side of the frame (above the trigger)?

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
The Redback is a good-looking pistol. Would be even better looking with no rails. And what’s the point of the stippling on the side of the frame (above the trigger)?

I actually like the rail on the Redback, honestly.

The texturing is for thumb traction.

That trigger seems way too curved for me. CZ put those big curved triggers on their P01, never liked them had to swap them out. Seems like it would force your finger up on the trigger. No way to go low and leverage the trigger. Maybe it feels better in real life than it appears. I doubt it though, I would have to swap that with a less forward swept trigger. Looks like a clean gun though, nice f&f.

Sure looks like a Sphinx to me and although I like the workmanship on SDP Subcompact Alpha that I own, the customer support was without question the worst I've ever encountered. The easily replaceable front sight wasn't (since Sphinx never exported them to the USA) and the only way I could get point of aim to match point of impact was to replace the rear sight with an aftermarket design intended for .45 ACP 1911s.

I'll be standing by to see what Phoenix does in regards to customer support rather than what they boast about.

Why anyone would pay outrageous amounts for a well made clone that doesn’t have the support or CS of the original for a high volume gun I will never understand.

I think it sometimes just becomes a boasting event. “Look at this!” Except it’s not an actual improvement on the original in any functionally tangible way. On a timer do you shoot that gun faster than any of the Shadows that it is a copy of? At a much more expensive price point, less ability to customize, far worse CS and support, etc etc. It’s a dick measuring contest with guns. Lol

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Why anyone would pay outrageous amounts for a well made clone that doesn’t have the support or CS of the original for a high volume gun I will never understand.

I think it sometimes just becomes a boasting event. “Look at this!” Except it’s not an actual improvement on the original in any functionally tangible way. On a timer do you shoot that gun faster than any of the Shadows that it is a copy of? At a much more expensive price point, less ability to customize, far worse CS and support, etc etc. It’s a dick measuring contest with guns. Lol

I can't speak for others, but I bought a Sphinx SDP Subcompact Alpha because I thought I was paying a little more for a pistol that didn't need the fine tuning offered by companies such as Cajun Gun Works (CGW) or CZ Custom. I was wrong, and knew it after my CZ PCR was "Cajunized" by CGW, with an end cost comparable to what I'd paid for the SDP Compact. My customized PCR was a far better CCW option and I wish I'd known about it before buying into the reputation of Swiss quality.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Why anyone would pay outrageous amounts for a well made clone that doesn’t have the support or CS of the original for a high volume gun I will never understand.

I think it sometimes just becomes a boasting event. “Look at this!” Except it’s not an actual improvement on the original in any functionally tangible way. On a timer do you shoot that gun faster than any of the Shadows that it is a copy of? At a much more expensive price point, less ability to customize, far worse CS and support, etc etc. It’s a dick measuring contest with guns. Lol

Lol ridiculous

Maybe because some people like the finest guns in the world? It’s that simple.

“Outrageous” amounts of money is completely relative, by the way. There are people who pay six figures on shotguns and double rifles.

I have CZ’s best stuff. It doesn’t do it for me the way Phoenix does. Nice guns, but they aren’t Phoenix or anything close.

To each their own. That’s why they’re small companies building limited quantities of guns. They aren’t meant for everyone.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bac1023,

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Why anyone would pay outrageous amounts for a well made clone that doesn’t have the support or CS of the original for a high volume gun I will never understand.

I think it sometimes just becomes a boasting event. “Look at this!” Except it’s not an actual improvement on the original in any functionally tangible way. On a timer do you shoot that gun faster than any of the Shadows that it is a copy of? At a much more expensive price point, less ability to customize, far worse CS and support, etc etc. It’s a dick measuring contest with guns. Lol

Maybe if you don’t believe us, do you believe this guy;

https://youtu.be/sO-GJCtjEM0

Honest Outlaw’s review of the Redback.

quote:

Originally posted by Dakor:
Brian,

Besides the stippling on the frame of the Phoenix Fusion and FO front site (the latter may/may not be an enhancement for some), what exactly is improved versus the Sphinx SDP?

Convince me that it's not a 100% clone, except for the features I mentioned.

quote:

Originally posted by Dakor:

quote:

Originally posted by Dakor:
Brian,

Besides the stippling on the frame of the Phoenix Fusion and FO front site (the latter may/may not be an enhancement for some), what exactly is improved versus the Sphinx SDP?

Convince me that it's not a 100% clone, except for the features I mentioned.

The SDP is nice, but it never convinced me to buy one. Other than the added features, the Fusion feels a lot more like the higher end models. The SDP is very nice, but it never reminded me of the Sphinx 3000. Felt much more “production” oriented I guess. The Fusion just seems more precise.

There’s no way to convince you unless you handle them together I guess.

So besides all the posturing dick measuring you love to dabble in can you answer the basic question? On a timer can you shoot that clone better than a Shadow/Shadow 2? It’s really a simple question.

So a lot more money for a gun that you can’t run faster or better than the original. Nice! Added bonus, no real support or good CS. Yay! How do I sign up for this silliness?

Value is subjective. Performance isn’t though. You are paying more for no added performance. Oh except for a bunch of frame indexing of dubious value and it’s laughable to post a polymer pistol and somehow we are supposed to be wowed by Swiss molding. Oooh fancy.

How are these better than the original? In real terms. Is this another it will shoot 100 million rounds with no parts breakage? Shoots cloverleafs at 50m’s?

Dick measuring nonsense. As for that guys video, did you watch his S2 video? Of course it’s a good gun, it’s a clone of one of the best designs in the world. Tanfoglios are good too for the exact same reason. Hell, some parts are interchangeable on both of those guns with the CZ. It’s a copy. Done to a higher standard of finish and a much higher price point. Show me the guy who shoots it faster and more accurately than the cheaper, better CS, more parts, and for fucks sake the same company that has been around for quite awhile. When this gun company changes the names again and corporate emails move around who are you going to get your support from? Silly.

No use to speak to someone who hasn’t handled one in real life.
And please stop the dick measuring comments, it’s quite rude and unnecessary.
All your comments are based on assumptions. I have dealt with Phoenix Swiss and there CS is top notch. And I’m talking Phoenix Swiss, not some US dealer.
If you like to know about how it performs, check the German IPSC Phoenix team, they’re winning matches all over Europe.
Price? What does a custom 1911 cost? Besides, if you go crying over prices, please move on, it’s not for you. Go buy a pawnshop Glock. How’s that for dick measuring?