quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

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Originally posted by DirectDrive:
Ruger has helped bring the price down from the prohibitively expensive FN offering.
The Ruger is the driver methinks.
Too bad that it's so dang fugly.

The Ruger or the FN? I think the Ruger looks great. Now, the FN, that's the definition of FN ugly.

So far, anything 5.7x28 fell out of the Fugly Tree.
The Ruger hit fewer branches on the way down, is all.

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Pricepoint.

I'm not "wet blanketing anything". The Spear retail price point is >$1 per round retail. Now for sure it will be slightly less actual. But it will not be changing the problem of 5.7 ammo cost.
The real deal FN is half that right now.
My point in all this is we don't need another premium uber expensive defensive round. What we need is somebody stepping up and making a go have fun round that's something like $.25 per round or less to add converts to the round. Those rugers are going to sit somewhere when they figure out it takes $50 of ammo to shoot a few mags on a sunny afternoon. I love the attention that 5.7 is now getting, not the reverse as you assert.

I don't remember which one... but one of the YouTube reviews of the Ruger 57 said it was ammo that drove this new surge. That it has always been a relatively expensive plinking round but now there is cheap FMJ out there with more on the way. If you really can buy inexpensive practice and fun ammo... that leads to interest in new guns.

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Originally posted by hrcjon:
...CMMG has been there all along and another AR option doesn't seem very interesting...

What caught my eye about the new CMMG conversion kit is that it allows you to use the 5.7 upper on a regular AR lower, and comes with conversion mags that fit a standard mil-spec magwell but hold 40rds of 5.7! Did something like that exist previously?

What's interesting about the Diamondback offering is that the first model takes the FN mags, and they say a model will be out soon that will take the Ruger mags. That's pretty sweet too.

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Originally posted by hrcjon:
I love the attention that 5.7 is now getting, not the reverse as you assert.

Well, then I've misunderstood you and genuinely apologize.

I'm a fan of the round and would like to see it proliferated as you say, with cheaper range options available. I'm hoping that Speer introducing Gold-Dots in the caliber also means someone will be producing cheaper range ammo as well as part of what looks like an industry-coordinated push to broaden the caliber. I'm sure this exact discussion has taken place in a number of conference rooms in the industry leading up to this and these exact points have been bantered about. If they can get reliable, inexpensive range ammo produced in reliable quantities, then this is set to change the 5.7x28 game. I doubt Ruger would've put out a pistol some have reported picking up for ~$500-550 if they didn't have a really good reason to believe that people paying that little for a "boutique caliber" (not quoting you, just in general) pistol would have done so at current availablity and prices of ammo. It's not tinfoil, it's capitalism (speaking to the earliest respondents) to say that a number of companies got together and decided "hey, let's open up this stagnant market and each take up a role to make it work."

I'm wrong plenty, but I'm thinking that other shoe is going to drop.

Side by side the Ruger is much better than the FN in the hand. It's got the long grip front to back due to round OAL, but it points more naturally and has a better trigger IMO. The Ruger American is fugly and the 57 is based on it, but the proportions of the 57 look a lot better up close than the American. The Ruger's action is straight back with no barrel tilt kind of like a Beretta 92 - and it just might have a locking block like a Beretta. It sorta looks like it does but I didn't have a chance to take one down yet.

Anyway, 20 rounds in a flush fitting mag that has a double feed position for easy loading (like an AR mag) can't be all bad...

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Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
Anyway, 20 rounds in a flush fitting mag that has a double feed position for easy loading (like an AR mag) can't be all bad...

Not having loaded one of the FN or Ruger mags yet, I'm still stuck with the impression that they're like a slimmed-down M1 carbine magazine than anything else.

I'm not trying to nitpick, even though it probably looks it. I guess I'm just saying it looks like a magazine which is that easy to load, even compared to an AR mag.

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Originally posted by 12131:
So, is it some conspiracy you're implying?

It's definitely not a conspiracy, though my title might have inadvertently suggested that. There have been many new rifle calibers released recently and their announcement is typically coordinated with a few vendors releasing rifles and barrels at the same time. When Federal announced the 224 Valkyrie there were rifles from Savage and LMT available the same day. When Winchester released the 350 Legend I believe there were several models available from Ruger and a few others.

New calibers aren't common in pistols so you could loosely compare it to holsters and lasers being available on the same day a new pistol model gets released. That's just smart marketing... you shouldn't have to wait months to shoot the new hot rifle caliber or to carry your new pistol.

It's clear who benefits in those examples, but it's not clear with the 5.7. CMMG released a 5.7 model last year so you could throw that out, and you could posit that Ruger asked Speer to make a good carry round for their new blaster, but what about Diamondback? Making an AR pistol that takes FN and Ruger mags? And the FN model is available first so it wasn't Ruger that put them up to it (Ruger could have made their own AR anyways). Either DB got extremely lucky with the timing of their R&D, or something is afoot...


I like PGT and P220 Smudge's hypotheses that a few associates got together and decided to stir up the market.

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Originally posted by smithnsig:
Very interested in the Gold Dot performance. If it hits the magical numbers it will be the next big thing.

If ruger concocts some type of carbine that uses the same mags, people will buy it.

That.

I really like the P90 as a weapon but terminal performance has held me back from investing.

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Originally posted by tulsamal:
I don't remember which one... but one of the YouTube reviews of the Ruger 57 said it was ammo that drove this new surge. That it has always been a relatively expensive plinking round but now there is cheap FMJ out there with more on the way. If you really can buy inexpensive practice and fun ammo... that leads to interest in new guns.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?fe...inue=2&v=Yrz982DulEs

I agree, this looks awesome!

As for the magical numbers...to me it’s velocities. FN won’t make their good stuff available to us pleebs. That were we get the whole, “it’s basically .22mag” stuff. If the Speer is loaded hot, it will sell and make the 5.7 a more potent option than we currently have with the neutered stuff from FN and American Eagle

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Originally posted by hrcjon:

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If it hits the magical numbers it will be the next big thing

I've been around 5.7 for a long time. what on earth magical number are we discussing? I don't see how any major ammo mfg. can push the pressure numbers in any new way.

Commercial 5.7 is downloaded a bit. 12” penetration with expansion is the magic number.

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FN won’t make their good stuff available to us pleebs.

I'm not sure what the 'good stuff' is in your mind. The full current FN catalog is readily available even if some of it is designated LEO. As I said before I don't expect Speer has some super secret sauce to get velocities generally above what FN does in its 'duty rounds'. But of course I would happily be surprised. Even out of a PS90 we don't see 12" in the tests I've seen so I don't see that coming from any ammo out of the pistols.

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Originally posted by hrcjon:
Even out of a PS90 we don't see 12" in the tests I've seen so I don't see that coming from any ammo out of the pistols.

I know very little about the 5.7 cartridge, but despite the fantasy belief that “all handgun cartridges perform the same,” the physical laws that govern terminal ballistics will inevitably manifest themselves in the penetration performance of small caliber, lightweight bullets as compared with their larger, heavier cousins. FBI or other performance protocols shouldn’t be taken as some sort of gospel in deciding whether a cartridge is suitable for defensive or other purposes, but if we insist on that, sooner or later we’re going to encounter limits in deciding what rounds are suitable.

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What's interesting about the Diamondback offering is that the first model takes the FN mags, and they say a model will be out soon that will take the Ruger mags. That's pretty sweet too.

When I watched the Shot Show demo of the Diamondback firearm, the first thing I thought was, "Too bad they didn't use the Ruger mags instead of the FN ones." I'm not saying that based on any inherent design advantage... but I've never bought the FN... and I may well pick up a Ruger. It sure feels like the Ruger 57 is going to sell pretty darn well... uses those mags would be a big selling point for the Diamondback.

And of course, if Ruger actually brings out some kind of carbine that uses the same mags, I'll have to take a look at that.

At least in one of the videos I saw on this DBack they said that ruger mag lowers are 'coming'.
I think that's silly, but heck if it helps sell stuff great.

I agree with hrcjon.

Don’t forget, it was Ruger that made the 6.5 Creedmoor into what it is today. Before the RPR, the 6.5CM and .260 Rem were neck and neck. Don’t underestimate their ability to move the market with new product introductions.

I too can’t wait for $.25/rd 5.7 practice ammo. I’ve had a PS90 and a fiveSeven for quite a long time.

Ruger & I hope there is a takedown carbine version waiting in the wings

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What caught my eye about the new CMMG conversion kit is that it allows you to use the 5.7 upper on a regular AR lower, and comes with conversion mags that fit a standard mil-spec magwell but hold 40rds of 5.7! Did something like that exist previously?

Aero Precision used to make an AR upper that took the 90 degree rotational PS 90 mag and dumped the empties out of the magwell on your lower. I think capacity on those was 50. It was an awesome product, haven't seen one in awhile.

IMHO Ruger introducing the 57 may simply reflect their innovation. For some time Ruger has been producing items like the 327 Federal Magnum which I think is very interesting round considering that one can shoot four type of cartridges.

I wish there were multiple manufacturers who produced handguns in 5.7 x 28. It is an interesting and innovative round and I love the fact that it is so light to carry multiple magazines fully loaded.

I am curious to see if Ruger will produce a slightly smaller carry version, but then a shorter barrel will certainly affect the velocity? Until the main manufacturers of handguns start producing pistols in 5.7 x 28, I do not believe the ammunition prices are coming down considerably. It is a shame since it is a great idea and apparently there is much interest in it out there. Of course if some major law enforcement agency in the U.S. or large section of the U.S. military started carrying them then it would certainly help in lowering ammo costs.

When I first became aware of that pistol years ago I was waiting for it to get more popular but I do not believe it ever will. Ammunition prices are probably going to remain around what they are now.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SSAreGreat,

I have always wanted a FN 5.7 but couldn't see spending that much on a gun I couldn't shoot often due to the expense of ammo.. I am looking forward to see how low the ammo gets prior to doing anything. I do like the look of the Ruger comparatively. The controls seem much more used friendly.