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| Animis Opibusque Parati |
I was shooting a P239 DAK today at the range, along with a GP100. It was fun handling the DA on the GP100 against the DAK. Maybe the 1000+ rounds already down the pipe over the years on the GP100 helped smooth that trigger some. The P239 with DAK is a fine shooter on its own. My friend who typically shoots Glocks was not a fan of either. I guess 40 years of shooting Model 10’s gave me the advantage. "Prepared in mind and resources" | |||
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Nullus Anxietas |
Indeed. My first center-fire handgun was a Ruger Security Six, with which I always practiced DA. Maybe that's why I'm comfortable with the DAK trigger. (And don't find .40 S&W particularly "snappy.") What does Burke charge to tune a DAK? I like mine well enough, but I wouldn't complain were it a bit smoother & lighter  I mostly carry my PPS M2, these days, but I still practice with and occasionally carry my P239 SAS, Gen. 1. In fact I just today received a mag carrier for it from R. Grizzle. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| Member |
I think it's the people that have multiple brands of guns that hate the DAK because it's not similar to any other brand/trigger system. So if most of your other pistols are DA/SA or SAO, it's different enough that it takes effort to get used to, but then you revert right back to your other primary firearms system. | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
Just like anything, there are pros and cons to the DAK. To understand it, you have to understand why it was invented. It was invented to draw some of DA/SA crowd who refused to train to stay with the platform instead of going to a striker pistol. Yep, you got it, it is an invention for the untrained. At the time, SIG did offer a DAO but it was worse than any of the other players DAO at the time. Beretta's DAO the "D" model, was second behind the DAO Smith and Wesson third gen pistols which actually weren't half bad. The DAK suffers from the one MAJOR drawback that it just isn't going to be shot real fast. Some of the arguments trying to gloss over the faults of the DAK are just snarky and dumb. It is the same backwards BS that I heard from the "get off my lawn" crowd at my academy on how utterly unreliable the Aimpoint sights were on rifles. Each time I rolled up to the academy to a rifle class they forced me to take my optic off of my rifle because "iron sights killed them in WW2, and it they were reliable and good enough for grandpa, they are good enough for cops". Yeah, its that dumb. (Also insert the "never saw a timer in a gunfight" crowd and the "but, but, but Jerry Micalek"). The major pro right now is that they are dirt cheap. Especially in .40. They are fun to shoot, just like any P Series pistol. Mags are cheap.This message has been edited. Last edited by: jljones, | |||
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| Throwin sparks makin knives  |
Double Action Kellerman, never been a fan.... | |||
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Bad dog! |
I have a Sig 239 in DAK, .40, that I had Grayguns work their magic on. I like it a lot, but what jjones says is exactly what I find: I can't shoot it really fast, not nearly as fast as my DA/SA 226 Legion, for instance. ______________________________________________________ "You get much farther with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone." | |||
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Member |
+1 ! Love DAK  Absolutely agree about Mr. Burke, also. He put the DAK system in my M11-A1 and I couldn't be more pleased! | |||
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| Member |
Yes, it was absolutely horrible. I owned/shot both of them back in the Handgun Pleistocene Era. Also a Python, Diamondbacks, Trooper, M66, M36, M60 M10, M12, M15, M28, M686, M57, M657 and others I can't remember. It was a real handicap. Ask guys like Charles Askins, Elmer Keith, Ed McGivern, Bill Jordan, Jim Cirillo and others who were unfortunate enough to utilize those inferior revolvers.  Time passes on... BTW, I prefer a Bearnaise with my T. Rex steaks. Old School. ______________________ An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing. --Nicholas Murray Butler | |||
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| A day late, and a dollar short  |
How many rounds have you put through your Burke DAK? ____________________________ NRA Life Member, Annual Member GOA, MGO Annual Member | |||
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| Member |
I have never fired a DAK, how does it compare to the double action only trigger of the Sig P250? | |||
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| Member |
I have shot a lot of rounds thru my 229 dak. The trigger is smooth and the only thing i can shoot more accurately is a 1911. That said, the dak trigger is not a fast trigger. I have shot it side by side with others shooting glocks and the difference in times is notable. It was a good idea, but maybe not in a striker fired world. | |||
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| Freethinker |
The double action triggers of the P250 and DAK models are similar. The pull weight of my P250 was originally somewhat lighter than most DAKs until I increased the compression of the mainspring. The primary difference in function between the two types of triggers is that the DAK permits resetting the trigger after allowing the trigger to go about half way forward rather than all the way as is required with the P250 and virtually all other double action only triggers. For some reason, the short trigger reset feature is something that confuses more people than the concept of the Trinity. Using the short reset is optional, which means it can be ignored if desired and it won’t intrude its confusing little self into one’s consciousness at all. As for the meaning of “optional” beyond that, I recommend a good paper dictionary of the sort they sell in some bookstores these days; look in the section under “O” along with such words as obvious and obtuse. Many people also point out that split times with a DAK trigger are usually slower than with something like a Glock or SIG P320. That’s true of me. My splits with a P320 can be in the range of 0.26-0.28 second; with a DAK P226 they may run 0.30-0.33. I suppose the maximum difference of 0.07 (1/14) second will get me killed someday if I ever walk into a classroom to confront four or five active killers armed with AKs and I’m foolish enough to be relying on a DAK pistol rather than a Glock or one of my P320s that would allow me to mow them down all à la John Wick. I am of course more proficient with a DAK than most shooters who have never made any attempt to master such guns just as I am better with bolt action rifles than people who have never made any attempt to master those guns. I believe that has something to do with the fact that I have trained and practiced with those types of guns. (I’m not sure how other shooters have mastered striker fired handguns without training and practice either, but evidently that’s possible based on what I’ve read by DAK and DAO trigger critics.) ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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Haven't been to the range since last time we went... Maybe about 135 rounds? | |||
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Objectively Reasonable |
In the agency formerly known as INS, our first semiautomatic pistols (the Beretta 96D) were DAO. It was explained-- in a rare moment of bluntness-- that they didn't think the vast INS workforce could be easily retrained to decock before holstering. (They were probably right, but that's another topic.) When personal P229s were added to the "approved" list, the stipulation was the same: Had to be DAO. The P229 wasn't designed to be DAO, which made the whole weapon seem sluggish and awkward for folks who'd had the pleasure of shooting an un-neutered P-series. So my personal hatred of "afterthought" DAOs comes from that experience. It's like taking a sportscar and installing a speed limiter on it. DAK is a big improvement over the original DAO, IMO, but still stigmatized for being "vandalism" of the original design. | |||
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| Sigforum K9 handler |
The hilarious part is people that make excuses for it, post a bunch of split times that are slower than other designs in their defense of the gun being............slower. I really don't get why people just do not admit the gun is slower and just move on instead of 4700 words of "blah, blah, blah" sarcasm and tripe in the effort to desperately minimize those who are simply saying from experience........the gun is slower and in its death throws. The DAK is cheap and in gun shops for a reason. It's not hate. It is simple math of a design that was made for people who refused to train. If it really could be shot competitively, someone would have won SOMETHING back in the day with them. Instead....crickets. In another few years, much like the DA/SA guns, the DAK will be gone from the LE/.mil scene. | |||
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| Member |
The differences in those split times will be meaningless in a real gun fight. I also believe that if you train consistently and to do not go to the second reset when shooting the DAK system that one can be just as competitive as someone with a striker fired system. I no longer carry a DAK equipped pistol but I am thinking of going back to it. That's how much confidence I have in the system. | |||
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| A day late, and a dollar short |
We need to remedy that situation. ____________________________ NRA Life Member, Annual Member GOA, MGO Annual Member | |||
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| Nullus Anxietas |
Very likely it was your comments on the subject I read, some years ago, when the subject came up. I'm not really fast with any trigger. I simply don't put enough time in to get fast. It's unlikely I ever will. Too many other interests competing for my time & I don't have the kind of cash to spend on the ammo. I did get pretty decent, FSVO "decent," at shooting pins at one point. Down in the 5-second range to clear a table with my G34. Haven't done that in a while, though. Checked, recently, and the range that used to have a pin-shooting night has changed ownership and they don't do that any more  "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| Member |
To expound on this, many police departments went from da/sa to DAO, because it was “safer” or “better”. Mostly appealing to the lowest common denominator. Beretta, S&W, Ruger, even Sig are all good and reliable weapons, but damn... the dao just sucked. I think the length of pull on a beretta dao trigger was about 6 feet. I think the average dao trigger on a Sig was around 10 pounds. Then the DAK came into the picture. If you’re limited to a Double Action Only trigger, the DAK is a far better option. The minute the DAK’s came out, and I was able to shoot one, my P-220DAO went to the back of the safe, and I purchased a P-220 DAK. ______________________________________________________________________ "When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!" “What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy | |||
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| Nullus Anxietas |
There's a P220 SAS, Gen. 1 on GB right now that makes me wish I had $500 to blow on something I do not need  "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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