If I had to rely on a .22 I'd want it to be .22 magnum. It's far & above a better round than plain jane .22's.
Rom 13:4 If you do evil, be afraid. For he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
December 24, 2023, 01:35 PM
PGT
Let's not forget the Sayeret Maykal Beretta 71's
IDF has used 22LR as a sentry gun in suppressed 10/22's. If a well-placed subsonic 40gr bullet can flip the light switch off, well, it has it's place.
December 24, 2023, 02:02 PM
jimmy123x
You're much better off with .25 ACP as .22 LR doesn't feed nearly as well and chance of jams are much greater.
December 24, 2023, 02:03 PM
toivo
quote:
Originally posted by egregore: I'll wager that, excluding warfare, there have been more deaths by gunshot with .22LR than other cartridges combined.
That may be true, but it's more a function of how many .22 firearms are out there, not of how effective the .22LR round is. When I was a kid, practically every family had at least one .22 rifle, even people who weren't hunters or "gun people."
December 24, 2023, 08:11 PM
neex
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x: You're much better off with .25 ACP as .22 LR doesn't feed nearly as well and chance of jams are much greater.
Exactly
December 24, 2023, 08:16 PM
neex
quote:
Originally posted by 92fstech: The most full-proof solution to the rimfire priming issue is a DA revolver. If it doesn't go bang, just pull the trigger again. But I agree...if somebody could come out with rimfire priming QC that's as reliable as center-fire, that would be the one to go with.
With centerfire, sure, done it many times, but I've never been able to re-strike a 22lr in the same place and get it to fire.
December 24, 2023, 08:53 PM
Genorogers
quote:
Originally posted by neex:
quote:
Originally posted by 92fstech: The most full-proof solution to the rimfire priming issue is a DA revolver. If it doesn't go bang, just pull the trigger again. But I agree...if somebody could come out with rimfire priming QC that's as reliable as center-fire, that would be the one to go with.
With centerfire, sure, done it many times, but I've never been able to re-strike a 22lr in the same place and get it to fire.
With a revolver another trigger pull takes you to another cylinder and another cartridge right ?
December 24, 2023, 09:06 PM
92fstech
quote:
With a revolver another trigger pull takes you to another cylinder and another cartridge right ?
Exactly.
A dud round in a semi-auto requires you to get the bad round out of the way and chamber a new round. The same situation in a DA revolver is simply an additional trigger pull, which advances the cylinder and gives you another try with a new round. If ammo reliability is a concern, a gun design that isn't dependent upon the ammo to cycle is ideal.
December 25, 2023, 11:32 AM
Pipe Smoker
quote:
Originally posted by neex:
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x: You're much better off with .25 ACP as .22 LR doesn't feed nearly as well and chance of jams are much greater.
Exactly
That’s not generally true. Some .22 LR guns are superbly reliable. And some .25 ACP guns are unreliable.
It’s common knowledge that the Mossad has used .22 LR guns for business purposes. I’ve never read that they used .25 ACP guns.
Serious about crackers.
December 25, 2023, 01:34 PM
stiab
quote:
Originally posted by jimmy123x: You're much better off with .25 ACP as .22 LR doesn't feed nearly as well and chance of jams are much greater.
In my revolver?
"While not every Democrat is a horse thief, every horse thief is a Democrat." HORACE GREELEY
December 25, 2023, 01:41 PM
monoblok
quote:
CCI is coming out with .22lr self-defense round
I was wondering why the raccoons in the 'hood have been acting so nervous of late...
-MG
December 25, 2023, 03:16 PM
colt_saa
quote:
Originally posted by monoblok:
quote:
CCI is coming out with .22lr self-defense round
I was wondering why the raccoons in the 'hood have been acting so nervous of late...
Originally posted by jimmy123x: You're much better off with .25 ACP as .22 LR doesn't feed nearly as well and chance of jams are much greater.
Exactly
That’s not generally true. Some .22 LR guns are superbly reliable. And some .25 ACP guns are unreliable.
It’s common knowledge that the Mossad has used .22 LR guns for business purposes. I’ve never read that they used .25 ACP guns.
The case design of the .22 LR makes it not nearly as reliable to feed and eject as .25 acp or any other centerfire round. That's why .25 acp was invented, to feed better than .22 LR. Will some guns reliable cycle it, sure, but most will have more jams per 1000 rounds than centerfire. Revolvers excluded obviously.This message has been edited. Last edited by: jimmy123x,
December 26, 2023, 10:46 PM
SigSentry
Not nearly as many malfunctions or duds as I was expecting.
December 27, 2023, 05:18 AM
metric
I have been disappointed by CCI lately, at least out of short-barrel 22's. My chrono testing had mini-mags underperforming Aguila super extra and velocitor badly beaten by interceptor.
These things (which advertize 950fps) are presumably competing against federal punch, which are supersonic out of a 3.5" barrel. Can't imagine them being a top choice for anything.
Leaping out of a vehicle parked near a hangar, two terrorists opened fire with AK-47 assault rifles,[3][4] and another two tossed incendiary grenades as well as dynamite that failed to explode. The cockpit and fuselage were hit, seriously wounding several people including co-pilot Yoram Peres, who died of his wounds a month later. The plane's security guard Mordechai Rahamim, a twenty two year old former soldier in the Israeli elite special forces unit Sayeret Matkal,[5] ran to the cockpit and fired at the attackers from the window with his Beretta .22 pistol,[3][4] and then jumped out of the plane through the rear emergency slide door and continued the shootout with the attackers. During the shootout, Rahamim killed the squad leader, and the battle eventually ended when the Swiss security forces arrived at the scene.
December 27, 2023, 05:58 AM
92fstech
^ while the .22 got the job done in that particular case, the outcome had more to do with the enormous testicles of Mr. Rahamim than it did the tool. Imagine what he could have accomplished with a larger caliber weapon, or even a rifle!
December 27, 2023, 01:50 PM
metric
He was just getting warmed up, and apparently didn't feel the need to switch caliber or platform. He gives a detailed account of Sabena Flight 571 (three years after Zurich) here: https://www.israelhayom.co.il/article/311699
quote:
"We purposely armed ourselves with handguns, because if we had tried to bring large rifles onto the plane, the terrorists would notice them under our coveralls. In addition, handguns are far more accurate and efficient in a situation involving hostages. It makes all the difference between completing a mission with almost zero casualties and sustaining multiple casualties. Even though the Beretta has relatively small bullets, it can be rather accurate and kill even from a distance of 50 meters." . . . "Suddenly I ran out of bullets. Like we did in the drill, I clung to the left wall, reloaded, and came running back toward the terrorist who fired at me. Danny Brunner was behind me, but he later told me that I reloaded so fast that he didn't have time to take my spot. Luckily for me, the terrorist also had to reload. He ducked into a lavatory for cover. I opened the door and fired in. He was killed and he fell out."
That's before we get to Mossad operations.
Shot for shot, there are more effective calibers. But, it's not entirely clear to me that one hit from 45 beats two hits from 22. Handguns aren't devastating -- they either poke a hole through something extremely vital or not. Those little Berettas may not be the ultimate weapon, but they consistently got the job done.
December 27, 2023, 03:21 PM
oddball
.22LR penetration test using clothing, meat, watermelon.
"I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965
December 28, 2023, 11:43 AM
HRK
Kel-Tec's PMR30 is a great little firearm, superlight weight, and in 22 mag you have 30 rounds at your fingertip. I have two spare mags so with all three, 90 rounds of lightweight ammo
Having to defend yourself and having 30 rounds available might be a good thing, plus 22 Mag makes a great ball of fire and noise...
