For someone with arthritis or similar physical conditions, this could be a viable alternative. And as mentioned, it works for a deep secondary backup gun.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns....sonal-defense-rounds

One uppercut and nighty night.

I could get proven wrong, but I don't have high hopes for this. Another lightweight subcaliber bullet, and it's not even moving all that fast. Why you would want something like that to expand I can't fathom, as penetration is going to be a concern even without expansion. It seems like a competitor to Federal Punch, which I've achieved very lackluster results from, both on steel and live targets.

^^^ There are plenty of cases of death from the lowly .22LR. So, it wouldn't discount it.

And, as stated in the article,

quote:

We all know you shouldn’t rely on a .22LR for self defense when there are more effective options out there. But I bet we all know people who still do. Whether it’s because that’s the only gun they own, or because it’s what they’re comfortable shooting, or maybe it’s a backup gun like a North American Arms Mini Revolver. Whatever the reason, and despite recommendations to the contrary, folks use .22’s for defense, have done so since Smith & Wesson developed the original .22 Short back in 1857, and will continue to do so in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
^^^ There are plenty of cases of death from the lowly .22LR. So, it wouldn't discount it.

A guy named John Hinkley ruined the day for four full sized, healthy men. Using a .22LR revolver and a lame round called "Devastator" ammo, outside a Hilton hotel he quickly fired 6 shots in less than two seconds, instantly putting three men on the ground with severe injuries, one James Brady, and other two a Secret Service agent and a D.C. cop. The 4th man was Reagan, hit with a ricochet and almost died in the hospital. All four men survived, but the shots stopped them in their tracks.



Another man shot, with a 8 round 22LR revolver, was Bobby Kennedy, Sirhan Sirhan also injuring five other people at the scene. Kennedy was hit with three rounds, one to the head.

When I hike or mountain bike I have carried an 8 shot lightweight 22 revolver. I never looked into specific SD rounds. This stuff is interesting in a “is this an actual good idea or just good marketing” kind of way. I’m curious.

quote:

^^^ There are plenty of cases of death from the lowly .22LR. So, it wouldn't discount it.

I'm not discounting .22 as a whole, and I'm well aware of it's track record (still wouldn't want to use it as a primary defensive caliber in most situations, though). I'm just dubious about some of these newer rounds that are being marked as "self defense" loads...I'm not sure they're worth the premium over regular old 40gr CCI or even bulk pack.

And let’s not forget that the 22 Long Rifle cartridge was reportedly used by the Israeli teams that hunted down those held responsible for the Munich Olympics outrage. If it gets to the point of having to shoot, being able to hit the target is the first priority, so its low recoil may be important for some people.

I agree, though, that I’d want adequate penetration with the cartridge if it had to be used for defensive purposes. Expansion can’t hurt, but only if penetration is what it should be. The “Devastator” bullets used in the Reagan murder attempt reportedly didn’t explode or expand despite that’s supposedly being their claim to effectiveness. The one recovered from Reagan had evidently ricocheted from a vehicle and even that impact wasn’t sufficient to set off the priming compound charge in the bullet.

22LR absolutely has the ability to kill

But remember in a secario where your life or the life of another is in jeopardy it is the ability to Stop/disable that is most important

Unless a vital organ or artery is hit, 22s have had a dismal stopping record.

Several years ago CCI introduced their segmented HP ammunition.

The projectile is in 3 pieces prior to firing that break apart on impact (held together by the plating). This usually creates a wound channel going off in 3 directions. It GREATLY improves the odds of hitting something important.

This ammunition is currently offered in their Mini-Mag (1275FPS), sub-sonic ammunition (1050FPS) as well as the "Quiet" ammunition (710FPS) .


Image courtesy of CCI

Since I see reference to suppressor use, I want to warn that pre-fragmented projectiles are not a good idea for suppressed, ported or compensated guns of any caliber.

The new 22LR with the JHP bullet that is allegedly "optimized" for 2"-4" barrels has nothing to do with powder performance, the optimization is designing a projectile that expands at slow speeds.

When carrying my 8 shot J-frame, I will continue to use the segmented CCI Mini-Mags.

I know nothing about this specific round but remember when Federal came out with the 22LR “Punch” round.

Not sure how it stacks up as a 22LR personal defense round. Here is an article with limited ballistic gel testing.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/gu...nse-ammunition-test/

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigarmsp226,

From my own research, the cci velocitor is the best long rifle round. In 22 magnum the federal punch wins.

Some people can't handle more than .22

I have elderly neighbors who wanted something but can't handle any recoil at all. I know others who just aren't gun people at all but wanted something.

For all of us, yes, .22 is not our choice, but I know people who do choose it.

quote:

Originally posted by ruger357:
From my own research, the cci velocitor is the best long rifle round. In 22 magnum the federal punch wins.

I’m in this camp also. Of course the 22 LR isn’t great, ideal, or even preferred, but it’s a lot better than nothing.

I shot with a niece a few months ago, she didn’t like the blast & recoil of her 9mm. She liked the 22 we shot the mist.

I'm reminded what Phil Engeldrum of "Pistolero Magazine" used to say about the 22 in handguns. These quotes come to mind but there are more:

"A 22 in your pocket beats a 45 in your safe."

"A hit with a 22 beats a miss with a 45."

"A 22 in your pocket is better than a quarter to call an ambulance." (Remember it was the 80s)

"Carrying a 22 is cheaper than a funeral. Have you priced funerals lately?"

While this is all great humor, there is some truth in it.

I saw a few folks who day was finished by the .22LR. And I also saw a dude shoot himself in the head with a .22LR rifle and a month or so later I had a chat with him in a local bar. No ill effects!
So... 22LR can work, just not with reliability.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
I saw a few folks who day was finished by the .22LR. And I also saw a dude shoot himself in the head with a .22LR rifle and a month or so later I had a chat with him in a local bar. No ill effects!
So... 22LR can work, just not with reliability.

We had a guy commit suicide with a .22 rifle. He shot himself right in the head. We had a conversation with him when we got there...while a bullet was lodged in his brain. He died a couple of days later from infection.

Like colt_saa said, it can definitely kill, but it may not do it fast enough to do you any good in a gunfight. I agree it's better than nothing, but I'm still suspicious that the benefits of these fancy and expensive "defensive loads" are more marketing hype than substance.

quote:

There are plenty of cases of death from the lowly .22LR. So, it wouldn't discount it.

I'll wager that, excluding warfare, there have been more deaths by gunshot with .22LR than other cartridges combined. I can think of a lot worse home defense guns than my M&P15-22 and its 25-round magazine.

What I am more concerned with in this cartridge is not fancy bullets, but reliability of ignition. The bullet does no good with a dud still in the chamber.

I agree. 22 ammo just isn’t reliably primed in my experience. CCI is pretty good but I still have a couple that I have to spin to a different part of the rim to get it to light off. That’s not ideal.

If ammo companies were serious they would put the effort into reliable priming. 100% of rim coverage. At that point the choice of bullet just doesn’t move my needle much.

Then when they do that quality priming stuff, dothat to the other 22 rounds. Lol. When I was a kid I don’t remember 22 being as finicky as it is now. Of course I shoot a whole lot more than when I wa# a kid.

So... Stingers?

The concern with .22 for self defense is reliability. At a minimum you need match grade quality control in regards to priming compound. There are multi strike/location firing pins on a couple rimfire, but nothing you'd want to CCW. Now's the time to corner the extremely small market.

The most full-proof solution to the rimfire priming issue is a DA revolver. If it doesn't go bang, just pull the trigger again. But I agree...if somebody could come out with rimfire priming QC that's as reliable as center-fire, that would be the one to go with.