The vast number of striker fired pistols have short travel triggers with a pull weight around 4.5-5.5 pounds. The vast majority of them have no active safety. (I know plenty of passive safeties etc.). Some are only half tensioned but there are a fair number that are fully tensioned.

Now the vast number of gun owners have no problems carrying and using the above for carry / HD / competition etc.


Now let’s contrast this with a DA/SA in single action. The vast number of these pistols have a LONGER trigger pull with pull weight of 4.5-5.5 or so pounds. Now most gun owners would have kittens if they saw somebody carrying around a DA/SA in single action with no active safety.


Why the perception difference? How have we as the shooting public been conditioned to be ok with one but not the other?

Now this is not a condemnation of striker fired pistols. I have carried them and have no problem doing so as long as a proper holster is employed. Yet I would never think of carrying a DA/SA in single action.

So why the perception difference? A Walther PPQ has a marvelous trigger but it’s also damn light and easy.

I guess I am curious as to when / how we as the shooting public became so accustomed to such short travel/light triggers when in the past that would have been crazy talk?

As always take care and shoot safe.
Chris

I question your premise that a DA/SA gun in SA mode has a longer trigger pull than a striker (not counting any pre-travel).

It could be measured easy enough though to confirm.

I don't think a lot of the lighter/shorter striker guns such as the P365 are necessarily safer especially in a high stress situation. Not much margin for error...

A P365 is probably going to be the next gun I buy, but I'll get the external safety version.

I guess I am thinking take up/pre travel.

I've always considered carrying a striker fired gun without a manual safety functionally (if not technically) equivalent to carrying a 1911 condition 0, or as CS says, and DA/SA cocked. It's not called "Glock leg" for nothing.

All that's needed is a quality kydex holster that completely covers the trigger and proper finger discipline.
I have seen a million draws from holsters at extreme speed in my competitions and no ND's whatsoever with a striker platform. The only one I've seen in the last 5 years in any platform was a 2011 shooter who disengaged his safety and had his finger in the trigger guard right after it cleared the holster and put a hole in the ground about a centimeter in front of his foot. Goes to show a manual safety means NOTHING without trigger finger discipline.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ryanp225,

I'm more worried about "Murphy" event like clothing or some foreign object getting snagged on the trigger. Not an issue with a DA/SA and thumb over the hammer, different ballgame with a striker.

Also, the stress of a life or death event is way more than in a competition, the stress of just force on force training is more than a competition and people do screwy stuff during FoF drills.

I don't have much striker experience, but if I had one I'd probably explore aftermarket triggers and polishing components for a smoother pull...but then heavier than normal springing for a more like a custom DA feel.

In all honesty, while I normally feel perfectly safe with a striker fired handgun without a safety, when it comes to the P320 I prefer the variant with the manual safety. The P320 striker is pretty close to full cock at rest and the takeup on the trigger is pretty short. I like the p320 trigger a lot. I do. I'm not worried about an AD from drawing or handling the gun. I am a little worried about a cover garment or something catching the trigger as it goes into the holster. With a hammer fired gun I can ride the hammer. With a Glock there is more takeup and the questionable added safety of the trigger tab. With the 320? I like to be able to swipe the safety on and holster. I carried (and continue to carry on occasion) a Glock of one type or another off duty for years and never felt a need for a safety. So far the only striker fired gun that makes me feel that way is the 320.

This is PURELY a personal preference and I respect anyone else who feels differently about it.

I believe it’s an important fact to recognize that lacking manual safeties most striker fired pistols offer no more mechanical insurance against an unintentional discharge than a cocked single action trigger with a similar weight trigger pull. Yes, there may be slight differences in trigger operation characteristics among different individual gun models, but if the shooter is not aware that something is contacting the trigger during handling (including holstering), such contact will produce the same results regardless of whether the gun is a Glock, P320, or cocked Classic line SIG. It’s also true that carelessly touching the trigger is likewise equally unsafe with all those examples.

Regardless of the rationalizations offered up by their fans, it’s an undeniable fact that Glocks have been involved in innumerable more unintentional discharges than guns like Classic SIGs that aren’t normally carried and handled with the hammer cocked—and not only because Glocks are more popular. I first read of the jump in UDs with Glocks long ago when they were first being adopted by law enforcement agencies, and were not nearly as common and popular as they are now.

When my agency transitioned from SIG P220s to P320s one of the things I changed in my safety briefing was from placing one’s thumb on the hammer when holstering to warning about taking extra care when holstering to ensure that nothing contacted the trigger during the process.

Is it possible to safely handle and carry a Glock or similar pistol like the P320? Of course, but they are less forgiving of mistakes if those measures aren’t followed.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
I've always considered carrying a striker fired gun without a manual safety functionally (if not technically) equivalent to carrying a 1911 condition 0, or as CS says, and DA/SA cocked.

Yep. Even more so with the trend of fully-tensioned striker springs (vs. the Glock system).

So are we headed for a DA/SA striker-fired pistol in the near future?

BTDT. Walther P99 and I wish that design had gained more traction.

When doing my infamous back flip at dance parties, I prefer my DA/SA 226.

Touching off a round before you are meaning to has nothing to do with trigger weight or style and everything to do with poor handling in my opinion.

Perhaps. But, I don’t really think that a round could easily be touched off when merely retrieving a decocked, chambered, unaltered P226 from the floor. In that context, the long, 10lb’ish DA pull provides quite a buffer.

quote:

Originally posted by FHHM213:
Perhaps. But, I don’t really think that a round could easily be touched off when merely retrieving a decocked, chambered, unaltered P226 from the floor. In that context, the long, 10lb’ish DA pull provides quite a buffer.

Very true.
But to indulge your red herring, if I dropped a P226 on the floor I'd pick it up without my finger going anywhere near the trigger. Same as I would with a Glock, 1911, M4, etc.
I feel it's the same as thinking it's ok to not have proper muzzle control on a pistol equipped with a manual safety.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:

quote:

Originally posted by FHHM213:
Perhaps. But, I don’t really think that a round could easily be touched off when merely retrieving a decocked, chambered, unaltered P226 from the floor. In that context, the long, 10lb’ish DA pull provides quite a buffer.

Very true.
But to indulge your red herring, if I dropped a P226 on the floor I'd pick it up without my finger going anywhere near the trigger. Same as I would with a Glock, 1911, M4, etc.
I feel it's the same as thinking it's ok to not have proper muzzle control on a pistol equipped with a manual safety.

Absolutely, much could have been avoided if that had been remembered in that embarrassing moment.

I had this conversation with myself when looking to buy a LCP. My shop had the standard, LCP2, and LCP Custom. The LCP2 is SAO and I could not be comfortable carrying that. IMO the Glock system is my absolute minimum level of safety.

There are numerous reasons why people think that striker fired guns don't need a manual safety - rightly or wrongly. The precocked striker guns have a long take up which offers a chance to stop pulling before it fires. Single action only triggers are usually a solid wall and then just break. Now there is also the fact the manufacturers and reviewers refer to striker fired or internal hammer guns as double action when in fact many are single action. And psychologically you cannot see a cocked hammer so it seems less risky.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Is it possible to safely handle and carry a Glock or similar pistol like the P320? Of course, but they are less forgiving of mistakes if those measures aren’t followed.

Almost verbatim to the very point I make when asked about striker-fired vs. hammer-fired guns.

I've owned striker-fired guns and quickly point out their many positive characteristics, and I would never describe them as unsafe...but some of their features make them less forgiving of mistakes or poor gun handling.

Show me a gun owner that has never dropped their keys, spilled a beer or cup of coffee, or tripped over a curb or doorway and I'll show you an ideal candidate for a striker-fired gun. I tend to try to steer new inexperienced gun owners away from striker-fired guns, and reserve recommendation for more experienced shooters committed to following safety rules and regular training and practice.

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
I've owned striker-fired guns and quickly point out their many positive characteristics, and I would never describe them as unsafe...but some of their features make them less forgiving of mistakes or poor gun handling.

Exactly.