quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The Glock Performance Trigger utilizes a fully-cocked striker.

It does indeed. And I remember some folks were kind of squeemish about that when it was first released, but based on that video in the OP both systems store enough energy to discharge the gun. So if someone had been comfortable carrying a Glock for years, the fact that the GPT fully-cocks the striker shouldn't be a concern.

When I installed the GPT last year, I primed an empty case, loaded it and tossed the gun around the range for a while. It never went off since the trigger was never pulled.

I know, not scientific but i threw it around the range more than it would do if I dropped it on the street.

Honestly, and this is coming from a primarily DA/SA guy, there are very few instances of strikers dropping and firing a round completely un-commanded.

Glock went through a period where folks were actually shooting themselves but that was largely because striker fired guns were completely alien to a large part of the user base and there were/are eleventy billion Glocks put into holsters.

You don’t generally hear of un-commanded discharges with Glock, Walther, HK etc. these days. The VP9 has been known to have its striker drop when it experiences a significant hit but it simply drops, is intercepted by the safeties and you just have a dead trigger (which is a problem all its own but not relevant to this)

The P320 on the other hand. There are enough instances caught on video that do absolutely seem to show a truly un-commanded discharge. I do think the lions share of instances are from an actual trigger pull but there is no denying there is video evidence out there of truly un-commanded firing. So why????? I am so far from being a gunsmith that I will probably screw up my next grip install but I’ll give it a stab.

1-The 320 has a smooth trigger with no trigger/drop safety/dingus. Combine that with a trigger that has a fairly light break and fairly short travel and it’s just simply easier for the human to screw up (and lie about it because …. human) or for a foreign object to pull the trigger.

2-The SIG FPBS seems like a weak link. It doesn’t appear to my uneducated, non engineer dumb ass, like it’s as robust as competitors guns.

3-SIG QC, parts quality, MIM quality etc. has been kinda in the toilet for years. Cohen is great for pumping models out and playing the corporate game but he leaves companies with a shitty quality rep and cheapens the brand overall. COUGHKIMBERCOUGH.

4-The 320 really is just a P250 reworked and the P250 wasn’t exactly a fantastic gun to start with.

I think a combination of all of those things makes for the perfect storm that is causing issues of one kind or another. If I were SIG I would simply offer a model/trigger upgrade with a dingus on it. Not a recall, not an admission of guilt but an optional upgrade for those who want it, I think that would be a great first step at mitigating issues without showing corporate “guilt” if you will. I would then start shipping a far higher number of dingus guns, at least the duty/SD variant guns. Would that address all the issues, no I don’t believe so. It would address many of them though IMO.

But again I am just a dumbass on the interwebz so my opinion is worth exactly that.

quote:

The VP9 has been known to have its striker drop when it experiences a significant hit but it simply drops, is intercepted by the safeties

Now THAT would make me uncomfortable. I pretty much insist on having some kind of firing pin block on any gun that I carry, but I don't want to ever have to use it !

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

quote:

The VP9 has been known to have its striker drop when it experiences a significant hit but it simply drops, is intercepted by the safeties

Now THAT would make me uncomfortable. I pretty much insist on having some kind of firing pin block on any gun that I carry, but I don't want to ever have to use it !

No arguments here, it’s one of the reasons I don’t own a VP9. Not because of a fear of firing but a fear of a dead trigger. That said it seems to be an extremely rare phenomenon and is probably a nothing burger in a practical sense but it’s just not something I want in the back of my head.

quote:

So if someone had been comfortable carrying a Glock for years, the fact that the GPT fully-cocks the striker shouldn't be a concern.

Basically that's true. But from what I hear, the travel distance on that trigger is shorter than standard. How much shorter I don't know, but any amount would by definition impinge on the inherent safety margin conferred by a long trigger pull.

On the other hand, the Glock owners who would purchase such a high performance upgrade are by definition more serious and hopefully more conscientious shooters less likely to engage in careless handling, so it's probably all a wash.

Then too, the number of these $100 upgrades on actual guns will pale next to unmodded units, so sheer numbers alone would drastically reduce the probability of any incidents.

quote:

Originally posted by MacGyver:
^^^I thought that any preload (whether partial or full) was what made a striker-fired pistol incapable of second strike.

Not necessarily, but in most (almost all?) cases yes. Some guns that have strikers (partial or full) do have second strike capability. I'm thinking some Taurus models off the top of my head. The same is true for the Browning BDM, which has a hammer, and can be configured in a DAO(half-cock) Mode.

The whole "striker action" thing should not even be a term in my opinion.

Every option, like as in SA, DA/SA, DAO(partial, or half-cock), or DAO(fully de-cocked) can be and has been done with both hammers and strikers.

As recently as a few years ago you could get Walther P99(striker) variations that were:

1. DA/SA - P99AS
2. DAO(half-cock)- P99 QA
3. DAO(fully) - P99 DAO

add to that the Walther PPQ, which was basically SA P99. I *THINK* the P99Q was DAO(half-cock) with second strike capability, but I'm not sure I'm remembering right.

At the same time you could get Beretta PX4(hammer) variations that were:

1. DA/SA - PX4 Type F, or PX4 Type G
2. DAO(half-cock) PX4 Type C
3. DAO(fully) - PX4 Type D

^^^Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, I posted about the P99 earlier in this thread . The P99QA is like a Glock (no second strike). That's why Walther called the button (which does the same thing as the "decocker" on the P99AS) a "field strip aid" and made it much smaller and stiffer (so it couldn't be pressed accidentally, as that would result in a dead trigger).

The PPQ is the same way (no second strike), except that its striker is fully cocked, not just partially cocked. Walther also ditched the "field strip aid" probably because of how misunderstood/underused it was. I am not familiar enough with the P99Q, but it appears to be a hybrid between a PPQ (aesthetics), a P99AS (DA/second strike capability), and a P99QA (partially-cocked striker for the SA, unlike the fully-cocked striker of the PPQ and SA mode of the P99AS).

The only thing I would disagree with you about is the inclusion of hammer-fired mechanisms into the discussion. The half-cock mechanisms on those guns are meant to keep the hammer from resting on the firing pin and to keep the hammer from striking the firing pin if it's jostled out of alignment with the sear in the event of a drop. The only one to my knowledge that is meant to have preload (like a striker) is the H&K LEM.

As mentioned earlier, the P99AS FE is still available. I had an old one way back when. I don't know why I traded it off.

quote:

Originally posted by MacGyver:
The only thing I would disagree with you about is the inclusion of hammer-fired mechanisms into the discussion. The half-cock mechanisms on those guns are meant to keep the hammer from resting on the firing pin and to keep the hammer from striking the firing pin if it's jostled out of alignment with the sear in the event of a drop. The only one to my knowledge that is meant to have preload (like a striker) is the H&K LEM.

Not in the cases that I mentioned.

The Px4 Type C resets to half-cock when the slide reciprocates, every time, Like a Glock. Same thing with the Browning BDM when in "Double Mode".

S&W also had that as an option on their 3rd Generation Semi-Autos, xx4x, or xx8x.

^^^Just looked up the Type C. Interesting! I had no idea anything like that existed.