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I always try to answer the questions asked in the context of the question. I have lots and lots of .45's. Some rare some not but maybe 50 examples. BUT in this case if this is your first .45 just get a 1911. You will have the complete history of American guns and historical signifigance on your side. There are a zillion choices at any level of price. But everyone and I mean everyone should own one. FWIW> “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
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Was there a use mentioned? If any CC is planned I’d add the HK45c to the running. | |||
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HK is polymer + safety option. Sig is metal , decock. (single action model is available). Sig allows grip options--thin vs thick, textured vs non options. Single stack. HK - polymer double stack==wider grip | |||
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| Member |
I have owned a bunch of 45s from various makers, still own 2 P220s and a SA 1911.Can't go wrong with a Sig P220! | |||
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I had a Sig P220, but sold it because it was not accurate for me. I still have my P220ST because it is a fun to shoot and accurate gun. I also have an HK USP Tactical .45 and a MK 23 that are also accurate and fun to shoot. So, what you should do is get all of them.  | |||
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| Member |
My USP has a "squishy" trigger, sort of annoying when trying to shoot accurately. I have not tried one of their target varieties. Why a 1911 is not in the mix is curious. | |||
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| Looking at life thru a windshield  |
Getting really hard to find, but the Walther PPQ .45 and the Sig P227 SAS, those are the two I have stuck with. One striker and one Hammer fired. I love them both. | |||
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Thanks everyone for your input. As much as I would like to get all three, and a 1911, only one is in the cards. Looks like I need to get to the range, rent a few and see how I like them. Bob Carpe Scrotum | |||
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| Buy that Classic SIG in All Stainless, No rail wear will be painless.  |
Something to consider here. I know this is the SIG Forum and we all like SIG pistols. Especially all stainless steel SIG P220 pistols! I had a SIG P220ST and a SIG P220 Match Stainless Elite. Both in .45ACP I sold both of them a while ago and replaced them with one HK45. Why? When the SIG P220 was designed, not much .45ACP ammo was available except ball ammo. In the 51 +/- years since the P220's design, the overall length specification for loaded ammo in .45ACP has not changed. But in that 51 years, the shape of the projectile ogive HAS changed. I have a 1000 round case of "famous" name brand .45 ACP ball ammo, and it wouldn't run in either SIG P220. Yes, I measured the loaded rounds overall length, and it's 0.012" to 0.015" shorter than the maximum allowable OAL. The bullet nose/ogive dragged on the front/rounded interior surface of the factory SIG P220 magazine tubes. You couldn't load more than about three or four rounds into the 8 round and 10 round factory magazines. Sig sells factory SIG branded loaded ammunition that cannot be used in their own SIG P220 pistols. It's a design flaw that has surfaced over time. The front to rear dimension of the inside of the magazine tubes "should have" been designed a bit longer. Or perhaps the original magazine design should have had a square/flat front surface vs round. It's also an issue that SIG cannot readily correct. The HK45 magazines are considered a staggered column magazine, and have a flat forward magazine tube surface with rounded corners, vs the SIG P220 forward magazine tube surface just being a semi circle. While the SIG P220 pistols surely are nice, I made the practical decision to sell them and get a .45ACP pistol that would shoot ANY in spec SAAMI ammunition. What if the .45 ammo you have, or can get, won't work in a SIG P220? Then it's a useless paperweight, or at best, a hammer. It's for sure a "ME" problem, as store bought ammo can be difficult to source at my location. (without submitting to a NY State Police paid ammo purchasing background check) You "should not" be required to take several P220 magazines with you when you go to the store to buy ammo for your pistol, and check to see if you can load it into your magazines before buying the ammo. With a SIG P220, that ammo checking for proper magazine fitment is now a mandatory requirement. It was also something I chose not to deal with. NRA Benefactor Life Member NRA Instructor USPSA Chief Range Officer | |||
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Member |
That’s really interesting. I owned my West German P220 for years and never had that issue. I used “newer” 8 round stainless SIG mags with mine and mostly ran UMC ball, Golden Sabre, Gold Dots and WW white box JHP. I’m not saying it isn’t a problem - just that I did not experience the issues when I owned mine. | |||
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| Buy that Classic SIG in All Stainless, No rail wear will be painless. |
^^^ I'm not the first Forum member here to note this peculiarity and/or design flaw with the SIG P220. As more modern projectile designs have made the 9 mm a "ballistics equal" to .40 S&W and .45 ACP, (at least according to the FBI) this newer projectile design has carried over to .45 ACP ammunition and the "issue" happens more frequently. The Sig P220 was designed about 51 years ago, and that includes the magazines, both in interior dimensions and the radius of the semi-circular front wall of the magazine tube. The one constant in life is change. Over the 51 years, the .45 ACP ogive shape has changed and at least as specified in SAAMI cartridge drawings, the ogive shape isn't controlled dimensionally as tightly as other cartridge dimensions. The SIG P220 magazines just don't have enough additional interior room for accommodating the changed ogive shape/dimensions. You will only see this problem in a single stack magazine, and one with marginal extra clearance. My P220 chambered in 10 mm doesn't have this concern as the 10mm cartridge is smaller than .45 ACP. NRA Benefactor Life Member NRA Instructor USPSA Chief Range Officer | |||
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| Member |
Somewhat surprised that no one mentioned the Smith and Wesson M&P .45 pistol. My agency switched to it to replace the P220 that we had issued for several decades. Holds a couple more rounds than the P220 and seemed to me to be a pretty well balanced and accurate pistol. Not sure if you are considering a striker fired .45 or not... | |||
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I too, like many others, own all three. They are all great guns, but if I could only keep one, it would be the West German P220 .45 with the Euro magazine release. Of all my 45s, my favorite though, is a Colt Combat Government. | |||
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I wish I owned all 3. It’s a Sig forum so no surprise for the Sig love. If I could own just one it would be the HK45. I just like the way it feels. | |||
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| Member |
I've owned several HK's and are quality shooters, but would still recommend a nice 220. Another of my favorite .45's is my FNX-45 Tactical. 15+1 in a full size double stack DA/SA action. Nice shooting .45 | |||
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I own none of those, or any .45 But in the middle of the night, when I wake up and can't get back to sleep, I have plenty of time to think. And if I lay there thinking of a .45, it's a classic Sig P220 in .45 that I think of before I roll over and go back to sleep. And I sleep soundly. It's on my list, right after a no rail P226. I just have too many difficulties in the way for now. | |||
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"Member" |
I have a USP (full size and compact,) an old West German 220, a G21, a Beretta 8045f and a Walther PPQ in .45. I was pretty sure I would not find (outside the 1911 platform) a .45 I liked more than my 220. But I have to say I might prefer the Walther. It's sorta a lesser discussed .45 but its ergonomics, capacity, reliability and just plain awesomeness make it a strong contender you should not ignore. | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
All things considered, the P220 is my only choice. Has decent aftermarket support. Parts and magazines aren’t crazy expensive. Don’t have to routinely adjust ejection/extraction like on the antique pistols. Slim line easy to carry Will feed every ammo I care to carry and shoot out of it. Lastly, and probably more anecdotal, people have complained about the evolution of the 226/229. They don’t like this about it, they don’t like that about it. (Long extractor being one). The 220 is largely unchanged since folded slides went away. ________________ People hate you. Train like it. | |||
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| TANSTAAFL |
I currently have a USB 45 with a LEM trigger and a HK 45C tactical da/sa, and I love them both. I have not had a P220, but I have owned a P245. I noted the same issue with ammo in the magazines, only mine was both with ball and my preferred 230 gr hollow point carry ammo had a lot of problems with the ogive dragging in the magazines. So I got rid of it, sold it to RHINOWSO. I also believe a 1911 is a good candidate. I have a Les Baer Premiere II and an officer Valkyrie that are my favorites in 45acp. And I have a stainless Cbob .45 with a damaged finish I got scammed on in a trade in our classifieds maybe 8 years ago. My fault, I did a straight up swap from my 10mm Cbob and the other guy was careful to take pics that didn’t show the damage and then disappeared from the forum. Basically looked like someone took sandpaper by hand to the bead blasted area on top of the slide and now it’s uneven and wavy. It’s a decent gun but I haven’t shot it because when I see it I get irritated. I suppose at some point I should find someone to repair it. | |||
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| Member |
Bob, my experience led me to the P220, as my shorter than average finger length left me feeling like all were too big, until I put the short reach trigger into the P220 and added the E2 grip. Cosmetically I like other grips a lot more, but the E2 grip and short reach trigger let me feel like I have more reliable control over the P220 than the HK handguns. And I thought the P220 had a crisper trigger action while the HK USP 45C had a 'mushy'er trigger. Not as distinct or light. | |||
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