quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
They have a near unlimited budget, so I’m really surprised that they didn’t issue Staccatos. They had Les Baer’s for many years.

This would have made more sense. Transitioning from a 1911 to the 2011 platform would have been logical. Plus Staccato pistols are being used in many departments, including the Texas Rangers. Plus, it is an outstanding gun.

Can't be serious, it doesn't even have a Grip Zone.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
I've seen them moving nukes around Malmstrom. The convoy looked nothing like that...

That sounds like an Air Force/341st Missile Wing convoy, not DOE. DOE movements are typically long distance on public highways. They're low key (no DOT hazmat placards) but with gov plates, lots of antennae, and escort vehicles they're easy to spot.

I heard that the security personnel the specialize in security for nuclear powered naval carriers and subs are serious don't-fuck-with-us types. Good thing too. I heard that SOP is shoot first ask questions later, or something like that.

I remember going through security at Fort Meade as a contractor to work in a computer SCIF. I waved (sincerely) at a couple of spooks in a shiny black new Humvee on the top of a grassy hill. They didn't wave back. Ok that's the last time I wave to the good guys. But worse, they continued to visually track me. Now that's spooky. Damn those guys do a good job.

^^^ Wrightd, Did they have Joe Biden Sunglasses on? Coz that's how you tell they are badass dudes. If they were just wearing Ray Bans then, no.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:


Staccato pistols are being used in many departments, including the Texas Rangers.

Staccato isn't used in many departments. It is approved for individual purchase in many departments. Texas Rangers issue p320, their Staccato was a group buy deal. Like a 100 guns across the state. How many Staccatos are used on duty vs just purchased at LE discount for whatever reasons, including resale, remains unknown but that is how they grow a legend of a "Staccato the duty gun". Zev is next.

To reiterate, these dudes are hardcore. I'm not about to debate them on their choice of pistol. Any one of them could make do with a Hi-Point, but I'm not going to begrudge them a Zev, or whatever they test out as best for their mission. The Zev isn't my cup of meat, but I'll defer to them as to what they need.

Note that the literature clearly states that the handgun is their secondary weapon.

How many U.S. Nuclear Convoy Guards have ever fired their pistol in thw line of duty?

^^^ In training, probably a shit load more than you have. I for one don't mind giving such forces what they want to get the job done.

Yes, none of these contracts are ever heavily influenced by "connections" nor is there any marketing involved.

There is no doubt these dudes are high speed / low drag. But a quick intergoogle on ZEV would indicate they run $1500+. Volume or unit discount? Maybe. But you can get 3 Glocks for the same $$$. With LE discount. Regardless of the units purpose, its our taxpayer money used to make the buy. Get optic ready Glocks and spend the rest of the money on training and ammo. If a unit member wants a Zev, authorize it for private purchase.

Yup. A waste of taxpayer money should never be acceptable. If in any way a 2000 dollar Glock is the difference in a uranium theft then it was money well spent. That is unlikely.

Government agencies should be good stewards of our money. Period.

This purchase isn’t increasing their skill set. SEALS seemed to get along fine with 226’s, 92’s, and Glocks I believe. Get a quality gun for issue. Allow them to purchase “better” guns on their own dime.

It is an interesting choice in a pistol.
Do I think it is a waste of tax payer money? Yes..
Would I like to try one? Yes.

The British SAS is issued the Glock 17/19

((in 2014 I met a few British Commandos who still had their Browning Hi-Powers against the flag poles wishes)).

The Bureau of Indian Affairs are now issued the Glock 19 Gen 5.

I am not a fan of the Glock at all. I dreaded being issued one, but it is a well proven pistol. (The problem is that i cannot hit water with it even if I dropped it out of a boat).

All these agencies get caught up, sold, or convinced/influenced that they need the neatest, greatest gadget.

I keep being told by my unit and LE partners that i am too old school. I just want a basic M16A4 variant with a red dot, a basic shot gun etc..

Heck. I thought I was high speed when I got issued a beat to hell Sig P229, Remington 870 Magnum, spike strips and an awesome computer in my cruiser. (That was in 2004). I then got issued a pepper ball gun. Woowee.

If that's a female agent trying out the new pistol on the firing range, maybe a more meaningful test of the ZEV OZ-9 handgun would be to step back from the 3 yard firing line.
I means, three yards! You could almost reach out and smack the target without even firing a shot at that distance.

According to the caption, she isn’t an agent, she’s the head of the department. Not an impressive picture either way. 3 yards out and 2 RSO’s to make sure it stays pointed down range. Sheesh.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
According to the caption, she isn’t an agent, she’s the head of the department. Not an impressive picture either way. 3 yards out and 2 RSO’s to make sure it stays pointed down range. Sheesh.

I agree.

Could be her first time ever shooting a pistol, in which case, that all seems about right...

Think of it like the city mayor (who's never shot a gun before) showing up for a photo op at the range with the city's police department. Yeah, they may technically be their boss, but that doesn't mean they know a dang thing about guns, so you're not going to just hand them a pistol and turn them loose on their own at the 25 yard line.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
I've seen them moving nukes around Malmstrom. The convoy looked nothing like that...

That sounds like an Air Force/341st Missile Wing convoy, not DOE. DOE movements are typically long distance on public highways. They're low key (no DOT hazmat placards) but with gov plates, lots of antennae, and escort vehicles they're easy to spot.

On base, off base. Potato, tomato.

Back in the 70's when Boeing was refurbishing the Minuteman missiles/silos, they pulled the payload prior to any work and then reinstalled them afterwards, to complete testing. I can't count how many times we got stuck behind these guys on 2 lane roads in BFE MT, SD, ND, NE... Nobody passes these guys, period, until they pull off every so often (read rarely) to let you by. Good times.

Nice pistola.

It’s not hard for a B ranked or higher shooter to outshoot a Glock.

I would expect everyone on that team to be able to do more than what a Glock can do.

Limiting the ability of such a team, with equipment, makes no sense.

If one of those teams ever fails, the nation is probably going to have a very bad day.

What doesn't appear anywhere in the article that I can see is what they're actually paying.

There have been a couple of these threads where the membership jumps all over an agency purchase as wasteful without actually having any numbers. The argument is always the "nothing they couldn't do with X gun."

I get the sentiment, but if a Glock that might cost $500 is "good enough", would you claim that they don't "need" a P226 that costs $800? Or why not a Ruger American that they could probably get for a shade under $400? What is "the line" on perceived wastefulness?

And with no numbers available, how do we know they aren't buying these things for a song as a stunt from Zev? They sell them a few hundred guns at essentially manufacturing cost, a few articles get run, and Zev goes on to sell a few thousand guns. It's smart business on Zev's part and the agency maybe gets something a little nicer than they'd hoped.

I know Staccato has come up in here a couple times. Individual officer purchases are discounted considerably from retail. Agency and group purchases are discounted further. Discounts increase as you buy more guns. Staccato definitely knows what they're doing in marketing their guns.