quote:

Originally posted by CQB60:
Agreed, STI’s would’ve been a step in right direction

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by CQB60:
It’s not the tools but the tradesman…

Most of these guys are former CAG, Devgru and SAD. They are the real deal and they are top shooters. They have a near unlimited budget, so I’m really surprised that they didn’t issue Staccatos. They had Les Baer’s for many years.

What JLJones said!

Those are some pretty serious people that get selected to get on those teams. NEST and NNSA don't have much of a "sense of humor" when they're working.


The whole "I think they should have X BRAND gun" or "They need to go to the lowest bidder" arguments are a little goofy when it comes to certain units / teams. These people are one of those teams. They shoot way, way more than probably 95+% of us here. They do this for a living, and are pretty damn good at it! And, as it has already been pointed out, look what they guard for a living!

Let them choose what equipment they need.
They selected a fully functional and reliable weapon. They're not rolling up like a bunch of my shitheads on 79th St with Hi-points and Lorcins, or jumping out in some Mexican border town in cowboy hats with gold plated AK's and Desert Eagles.

While it would be easy for me to say a Salient or an SVI would be better?

They find a pistol that combines Glock architecture and the modularity of a P320.

Trying to think of any other manufacturer that provides such a thing...

It seems like most times I hear about this "ZEV" shit is when these fucking cartoon cap guns malfunction.

Just get a Glock and stop playing around.

Port the barrel and slice a few unnecessary cuts into the slide, and then we'll know they're serious about it. Make sure they put 16 different kinds of checkering or stippling patterns on it and make sure the ones that clash the most are side by side on your waste of taxpayer dollars.

I want to say, I think they/we/us would be better served if they were issued MR73's but I'm just going to keep that thought to myself.

Oh, drat.

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
I want to say, I think they/we/us would be better served if they were issued MR73's but I'm just going to keep that thought to myself.

Oh, drat.

That’s funny.

You forgot the smiley face though.

No comment on weapon choice.

In a previous career, I had contact with this group, all I have to say is that they are No Joke. Highly trained with great experience. A group not to be taken lightly.

So we could continue spouting baseless opinions or we could look at the actual process which lead to the OZ9 being chosen.

As I said earlier, based on my limited experience with the OZ9 it’s not something I would choose for duty.

HOWEVER, like J. Jones I know enough about the organization in question to respect their findings. There is a reason things like testing processes exist.

Original sources are best.

Taken from:
https://sam.gov/opp/448ae3e5c3...73497ba97c02c8c/view

The scope of this effort is to obtain the Zev Technologies’ OZ-9 Combat X 9mm Pistol with 3-dot tritium night sights installed and 6 PMAG 17 rounds magazines per handgun. Additionally, OST requires armorer training for armorers, replacement parts, and the ability to purchase additional handguns.

Accordingly, OST has an operational need to replace its current secondary duty weapon with a 9mm handgun that is not only concealable but provides OST FAs with short-range day and night defensive capabilities when their primary weapon is not being utilized. Field testing occurred between January 25-27, 2022. Based on the testing criteria, the ZEV 0Z-9 Handgun not only score the highest overall technical score among six (6) 9mm gun manufacturers, but the ZEV 0Z-9 handgun received the highest individual scores when it came to weight, damage resistance, low light operations, point ability, ergonomics, malfunctions, recoil management, and overall impression.

quote:

How many ways can they think of to waste taxpayer money?
I have to think each of those machining cuts and individual parts has to be done in a different Congressional district.

Needs more pimp gold highlights!

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Originally posted by 220-9er:
How many ways can they think of to waste taxpayer money?
I have to think each of those machining cuts and individual parts has to be done in a different Congressional district.

Do you think they are paying retail for these guns?

This organization is not large enough for Zev to be making any type of “real” money and just like the M 17 contract for SIG, this is a “strategic sale.” They will make way more off collateral commercial sales to people who want what “the nuke guys have” than they will off the actual contract with OST.

And even if they were paying retail, these are not safe queens. Duty guns are expendable items especially for an organization that shoots and trains extensively. The same will be true of Glocks, SIGs, or whatever your favorite flavor is.

In any organizations firearms program guns themselves are one of the lowest cost items. Compared to the tens of thousands of rounds that will be put through these guns and the man hours to pay those shooting them the cost of an Oz nine is inconsequential.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
I assume these guards are uniformed. If so, just give them Glock 17s, or dare I say it 22s.

They are not. For the most part, OST is plain clothes. Their vehicles are plain, trucks are plain, and they are extremely heavily armed. Usually they have one vehicle with a Dillon mini gun concealed inside. They usually have armed air support when they move.

Their marked garb usually in only has “federal agent” placards attached. My academy used to have a block of instruction in the basic course that had a cheesy video about what OST does. What was clear is if you encounter them, do not approach them. They will instruct on what to do.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
I assume these guards are uniformed. If so, just give them Glock 17s, or dare I say it 22s.

They are not. For the most part, OST is plain clothes. Their vehicles are plain, trucks are plain, and they are extremely heavily armed. Usually they have one vehicle with a Dillon mini gun concealed inside. They usually have armed air support when they move.

Their marked garb usually in only has “federal agent” placards attached. My academy used to have a block of instruction in the basic course that had a cheesy video about what OST does. What was clear is if you encounter them, do not approach them. They will instruct on what to do.

I remember that video. And that was my take away from it as well- don't screw around with them.

I remember it was extremely cheesy with with 70s porn music

I read the article and looked at the pictures and caught this:

" does show then-NNSA Administrator Lisa E. Gordon-Hagerty as she "demonstrates her skill with a Smith & Wesson M&P .45-caliber pistol during a visit to the [OST] Agent Operations Eastern"

Somebody should advise her to lean forward at the hips instead of backwards.

I might be in the minority but the ZEV seems like a good choice. It has many things Glock does not - better grip angle, trigger design/pull weight, modular design like the 320 and especially the tang/beaver tail is much better/larger than Glock. I don't understand why Glock refuses to change the frame design with the tang/ beaver tail area. Their answer to it is adding more pieces to the frame which is ridiculous and not helpful. By adding those beaver tail pieces to the Glock frame, you add more length and less comfort. The trigger guard seems more comfortable than the Glock for my fingers. The trigger on the ZEV is quite nice and most people seem to change their triggers out once they get their new Glock anyway.

I am not against Glock by any means, as I have many and the ZEV slide design/styling might not be to their liking and understandably so but Glock continues to remain stagnant in their design. Glock is now changing their slide design to add more serrations, as it seems that is what people prefer for whatever reason.I like the addition. At least with the Glock 43x/48 they addressed the beaver tail/tang and made it better for those with big mitts. Even the 320 seemed odd to me at first but after firing/handling one, it is much better to me in many ways, than the Glock design. I just prefer the Glock/M&P trigger pull compared to the Sig as I just don't feel comfortable with the shorter/lighter trigger pull on the 320.

quote:

Originally posted by HCM:

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
How many ways can they think of to waste taxpayer money?
I have to think each of those machining cuts and individual parts has to be done in a different Congressional district.

Do you think they are paying retail for these guns?

This organization is not large enough for Zev to be making any type of “real” money and just like the M 17 contract for SIG, this is a “strategic sale.” They will make way more off collateral commercial sales to people who want what “the nuke guys have” than they will off the actual contract with OST.

And even if they were paying retail, these are not safe queens. Duty guns are expendable items especially for an organization that shoots and trains extensively. The same will be true of Glocks, SIGs, or whatever your favorite flavor is.

In any organizations firearms program guns themselves are one of the lowest cost items. Compared to the tens of thousands of rounds that will be put through these guns and the man hours to pay those shooting them the cost of an Oz nine is inconsequential.

No they're likely paying way over what a retail price would be.
The article clearly states this is a no bid contract. These are essentially a small batch of custom guns, most likely at cost plus some fixed percentage.
Can they sell some outside of this contract to civilians for more? Probably, but it is very hard to understand how this purchase makes the nuclear weapon being carried and guarded any safer than a carefully inspected and tested standard Glock with any needed off the shelf accessories like a light or different sites.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
...it is very hard to understand how this purchase makes the nuclear weapon being carried and guarded any safer than a carefully inspected and tested standard Glock with any needed off the shelf accessories like a light or different sites.

It's hard to understand because it's nonsense.

The Navy just uses marines to guard their nuclear weapons. It was funny though how you see missiles being pulled around in the hangar by sailors but then every now and then you see a string being moved with a contingent of marines around it. "nothing unusual here..."

A waste of taxpayers money. A highly trained Government shooter can wield a standard G17 Gen 5 that puts most of us (not all) to shame. No need for the Gucci Zev.

It is a bit strange that they didn't go with Staccato, since they probably have very little budget constraint.

ZEV wouldn't top my "we've got the money for it" list, but that's irrelevant. Handguns are far, far from the primary armaments these guys carry around.