quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
The big one is the number of guns that have exploded and the blame has been on the ammo being double charged, but the case head appears that the gun went off while not in battery.

I do not want to side track this thread, but that is my major concern. The voluntary "upgrade" seems to have potentially fixed the issue.

Well, now doesn't that just open another big ole can of worms.

I've never even heard of that problem!

I'd be curious how it happens since many pistols have been accused of this but with every pistol I've ever tried to get to land a FP on a primer when OOB, by the time the slide unlocks enough to actually cause same, the FP is relocated far enough away from the primer that the FP can't touch the primer.

I'd like to know more about this issue. If you have a link to further info, please post it!

I respectfully take issue with my friend Jerry here. In every single P320 blown-case incident I have examined, faulty ammunition has been implicated. I have set up OOB firing tests to validate or debunk the persistent belief that the P320 can fire when sufficiently out of battery to cause a case failure with normal, SAAMI-spec loads. In my considered opinion, it cannot. This erroneous belief is attributable to early misunderstandings regarding the original self-resetting trigger, which set the P320 up as a seemingly-plausible whipping boy for the substandard hand loads, reman and cheap bargain factory crap which passes for real ammo these days.

-Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by Grayguns:
I respectfully take issue with my friend Jerry here. In every single P320 blown-case incident I have examined, faulty ammunition has been implicated. I have set up OOB firing tests to validate or debunk the persistent belief that the P320 can fire when sufficiently out of battery to cause a case failure with normal, SAAMI-spec loads. In my considered opinion, it cannot. This erroneous belief is attributable to early misunderstandings regarding the original self-resetting trigger, which set the P320 up as a seemingly-plausible whipping boy for the substandard hand loads, reman and cheap bargain factory crap which passes for real ammo these days.

-Bruce

This reminds me of the "Glocks fire OOB" stuff that used to get posted up on GT. As mentioned above, we tried every modern pistol we could get our hands on and none of them would allow a FP to strike a primer when the slide was unlocked or even just barely touching the lug on the barrel.

Of course some other explanation for legitimate OOB might exist e.g. high primers, foreign material in gun, broken FP stuck in FP aperture swiping primer as the case rose - but even in the latter it is more likely the barrel would seat before ignition took place as occurs in a fixed-pin submachine gun.

I always thought that Job Number One by mechanical engineers cooking up new designs is the placement of parts to absolutely preclude any mechanically-induced OOB firing. I'm trying to think of a case in all of modern gun design where this is not provided for and off the top of my head can only think of one pistol and one rifle, the former being the Walther P-38 which I think can be fired without the locking block installed and of course infamously there is the latter in the Ross rifle that allowed for assembly in such a way that the locking lugs did not seat yet the gun could be fired. This cost a number of Canadian forces troopers their face and just a few years ago a fellow at our range here locally where an improperly assembled Ross allowed the bolt to carry away his cheekbone and a good chunk of his jaw on firing.

Anyhow, Bruce, can you give us any more insight on this rather sketchy report on the 320/XM17/18's being discussed?

Any pictures of the Ball ammo being discussed? Is it a Round Nose Flap Point or a true Truncated Cone?

Thanks.

I found this image, not sure what you can glean from it...

When I manage to duplicate the grip depicted above, my support hand position is higher and much more forward than when I hold the gun for firing. I could see how the support hand in that position could contact the slide catch lever, but I would never fire the pistol while holding it like that. Depending upon its size, the firing hand thumb could also contact the SCL, and that’s why some shooters must rotate it farther out from the gun and onto the rear knuckle of the support thumb.

What is the latest info regarding when the xm17 package will be available for purchase by non-military folks?

quote:

Originally posted by stoic-one:
I found this image, not sure what you can glean from it...

Interesting.

A drawing of course, but still it doesn't look like a true truncated cone either in ball or JHP.