I'm super happy with my MantisX

Add me to the list of people who are really happy with the outcomes from using the Mantisx. I've been shooting for a long time and have be considered by my peers to be better than them marksman.

I came home from a two day pistol class really disappointed with my performance. On the way home I was talking with my friend about my shooting and ultimately concluded that the problem was my fault (what a surprise). I resolved to spend a lot of time in both dry practice and then range time.

I did this and saw my scores weren't improving. I thought about this and decided I was the victim of a big ego coupled with a myriad of micro errors which, when added together, were causing me to miss. I looked around the web and found the Mantisx.

I bought the gadget and installed it on my pistol. It immediately began to identify a number of issues (strong hand, support hand, trigger press, ...). I've worked on this for about four weeks and just got back from another class. I'm better and feel very encouraged.

I've read the criticisms of this device in this thread as well as other places. More power to those who can self diagnose and fix their shooting. I couldn't fix this on my own. My scores started in the low 80's and are now in the low 90's.

quote:

and ultimately concluded that the problem was my fault

Not me, it’s always the guns fault. That’s my story.

Me too, I find I’m more accurate than my guns. Lol

I used to absolutely suck with the Da pull of my 229. In the academy they told us to practice dry firing by watching tv and dry firing at things/people on the tv and you know what? It works. And it worked pretty quickly, I’m damn confident with a da pull now and I’ve passed that tip onto friends who tell me it worked for them too

My favorite dry fire device cost me 1 cent. A penny placed on the front sight while doing trigger pulls tells a lot, especially for how much money you invested.

It wasn't a whimsical decision to spend $150.00 on the Mantisx. I couldn't count the number of hours I've spent in dry practice, focused on the TV, a dot on the wall and a silhouette target in the garage. While I haven't balanced a penny on the barrel I have balanced an empty case.

I'm seeing very positive outcomes resulting from using this gadget.

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:
I used to absolutely suck with the Da pull of my 229. In the academy they told us to practice dry firing by watching tv and dry firing at things/people on the tv and you know what? It works. And it worked pretty quickly, I’m damn confident with a da pull now and I’ve passed that tip onto friends who tell me it worked for them too

I didn't write the book on this but if you want to get serious, it has to be a zombie movie.

Mantis is pretty good for Precision one hand pistol. I have done dry fire with one. Rather small errors will show up. Might help to shoot more 2-3 inch groups at 50 yards.

Please read the data analysis provided.

The derived truth is obvious... I would argue that STI and other 1911 clones have a trigger release that is easiest to manage, especially in precision (Bullseye) shooting.

Anticipation creates the dreaded “jerk” pattern, also the less-encountered “push” pattern.

It is extremely difficult in live fire to see the iron sight alignment or the red dot bounce - the greatest shooters can see that through recoil. Mere mortals, not so much.

My favorite teaching tool is “Ball and Dummy”. I cannot tell how many times shooters would be cranking on the sights and still not centering the groups. I would pick up the same pistol and blow the center out of the target. (Easily done at 12 yards).

Then, ball and dummy. Anticipation and flinch obvious in the extreme on the dummy round.

The Mantis will show the anticipation in live fire And allow for correction. I also think it would be valuable in dry fire to train the subconscious mind on proper trigger control.

Tillman
Aka - Mr. ClearSight
Of Bullseye fame in the 1980’s

quote:

Originally posted by Johnny 3eagles:
My favorite dry fire device cost me 1 cent. A penny placed on the front sight while doing trigger pulls tells a lot, especially for how much money you invested.

Due to inflation, I now use a dime

So for everybody who loves this gadget, give me some metrics. How much faster are your splits. What are your improved transitions? (How far apart are the targets?). How much has your clean bill drill improved by? How much has your USPSA or IDPA classification changed? What is you clean FAST drill or Triple Nickel times?

No offense, but I read these threads and people chime in on their experience being different than mine. But, no ever posts metrics. What’s your draw fire one at 10? Draw fire one, emernfcy reload fire one?

quote:

Originally posted by MantisAustin:
The USMC and Army both ran separate, independent studies comparing shooter performance and improvement with and without the use of Mantis. We can't say anything about the results (yet), other than to say we wish we could share those results.

Are you saying that your product can do what the Army EST trainer does? I'm asking because I was certified to run the EST before I retired, and I know what kinds of data it can capture.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SgtGold,

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
So for everybody who loves this gadget, give me some metrics. How much faster are your splits. What are your improved transitions? (How far apart are the targets?). How much has your clean bill drill improved by? How much has your USPSA or IDPA classification changed? What is you clean FAST drill or Triple Nickel times?

No offense, but I read these threads and people chime in on their experience being different than mine. But, no ever posts metrics. What’s your draw fire one at 10? Draw fire one, emernfcy reload fire one?

I expect that most who buy the device don't compete. That said, I'm a really low-level competitor, and I have no idea what any of those things are. I know what some mean, but have no idea what the times might be. I'm sure that many who buy one are in the same boat.

Splits are fairly irrelevant when one is merely trying to hit the damn target.

So, let me understand what you are saying. Splits and transitions don’t matter. This is a device for those who are just wanting to shoot groups? Most people who buy this device won’t measure their performance by outside standards or criteria, the device just tells them they are better and they take it at face value?

Despite not having an outside way to measure performance?

Is that correct?

No, I didn't say any of those things.

The vast majority of shooters, in fact anyone that doesn't compete will never be timed, and will never know their "splits." I have no idea what my "splits" are. In fact, had I not attended one of your classes, I wouldn't even know what one was...and even then, I had to ask. As for most of the other terms, I'd wager that the vast majority of shooters who don't compete have no idea what those terms are, or mean, and will certainly never have tested for those metrics. I have no idea what some of those terms are.

Whether someone knows what those terms are or not doesn't really impact whether or not a particular training aid may be useful. Some are quite happy putting a penny on top of the slide. Some may never try it. I don't know that those who have never tried it, are handicapped.

Are those who do the drills or timing or other things you described bound to excell, and if so, by what standard? A great many shooters will show up at the public range, or at the desert, or in the woods, and empty a box, or a few boxes a target. Most shooters will never attend a class. Anyone that does seek to improve their fundamentals, or their particular skills in this area or that, is to be commended, because their effort is in excess of what the average firearm owner will do.

Not everyone learns the same. In your fundamentals class, we did a count, and even by the end of the course, I still couldn't draw and shoot and do that count...never did get it. Despite the daily mantra about rules, I never memorized it. It just didn't sink in. Doens't mean I didn't get anything out of the class, but everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and there are a lot of modes of learning.

Some may find the mantis, or any other device, system, practice, procedure, concept, routine, gimmick, etc, to be of benefit, and yet others, may not. Just as some may utilize certain drills, or a timer. Some might shoot steel, some paper, some tin cans. Not everyone becomes Rob Leatham. In fact, just Rob Leatham became Rob Leatham.

Your MOAC course is of considerable value, and there's a lot to be gained from it. Ben Stoeger, et al, has dry fire manuals and training courses. I believe Bruce Gray has a manual on the subject. I think it would be dismissive to suggest that someone seeking input from a source is wasting their time if they don't use your metrics. Perhaps splits and the other things you mentioned have meaning to you: a lot of people will never know what they are or mean. Does that matter?

Put another way, more directly to your question, are you saying that to establish value, the only metric would be the exercises or terms you propose? Sounds like your way or the highway. Is it possible that a person purchasing the product might find that it has value for them, even if they've never been timed for splits, transitions, bill drills, etc?

So, the “quantifiable way” doesn’t include actual metrics that are in common usage in training.

That’s a hell of a good scam for this gimmick. To be able to claim improvement, but not have to prove it.

.

JLJ ~ any training books or videos in the works from you and Op Spec?

.

quote:

So, the “quantifiable way” doesn’t include actual metrics that are in common usage in training.

Why can't we have both, why does it have to be one way or no way?

Professional race drivers use digital training tools to learn the tracks they are going to race, this gives them invaluable time on track in order to learn where the marks are, and what to expect when in the vehicle.

Digital interfaces with any type of sports are common, so digital shooting education is going to be the future. While Mantis might not be the ultimate, some time in the future this type of training device is going to mature and become standardized into a training regimen.

If we're going to get the youth of today interested we'll have to accept that technology is coming. Take an iDevice app, it's immediate return of data is seen as a valid method for analysis by todays standards.

Right now a box of 1000 9mm is more $ than a Mantix X. I could see forgoing some range time for practice time since both ammo is up in price and ranges are either restricted or full to the brim.. or in a city where even transporting a firearm to a range is difficult.

At 9pm the range is closed, so home dry fire practice with some digital result data is a great alternative, an you can't carry an instructor with me whenever analysis is needed.

Practice isn't worth much if all you're doing is practicing wrong all the time...

Race car drivers have metrics such as speed and time. When someone says “oh this gadget will make you a better driver. Race car drivers then ask “How will does it effect my time in the xxxx?”

The gadget supporters then say, “Oh I don’t know, most that use this gadget don’t own a watch or mark off distance”.

That is the difference. And likely the reason no one actually has metrics. I suspect that the truth isn’t pretty.

Dry fire costs absolutely $0.00. If we are measuring cost/benefit analysis, dry fire is king and costs less than a case of 9mm. The entire cost of a case of 9mm. And people that use it can give you metrics of their success. But, it’s work and because it’s not a magic pill, People will spend money on gimmicks.

Oh, and it doesn’t account for the fact that t th he “coaching” is horrible. It truly is the ABROLLER90000 of the firearms world.

People can spend their money how they wish. However, expect when the claim is made that the product “makes you better”, that people are going to ask how. And with no metrics, people will be skeptical.