I really like the size of the standard P365, and that's what I generally carry. But I've never been much of a fan of striker fired pistols, and I love my classic Sigs.

Could they make a similar gun in DA/SA? That would be my dream carry gun. I think the magazine design should carry over, but I don't know if the DA/SA takes up too much space. I think the P232 is a little bigger, but not that much. Just heavier and less capacity.

Am I just a dinosaur who prefers a DA/SA? I don't think it's just nostalgia. I think the DA/SA is the best carry option out there. Even if you can't transition well from DA to SA I don't think we really need perfect double taps from a small carry pistol.

It really is a packaging issue as well as a demand issue.

DA/SA does simply take up more space.
You, me and like 10 other guys still prefer DA/SA and while I buy my fair share of guns I can’t support new model on my own.

I would love a slim HK P30sk/P2000sk though.

I've been waiting for something like that for a while now. There are some discontinued models out there that come close to the size, but have nowhere near the capacity. The Smith CSX came close, but they made it SAO.

I think the market and thus the development dollars just aren't there, even though there are definitely a few of us who would buy it.

A lightweight, slimline, polymer-framed micro-compact variant of the SP2022 would be awesome.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
It really is a packaging issue as well as a demand issue.

DA/SA does simply take up more space.

Exactly. Even if the DA/SA mechanism could be sufficiently miniaturized, I don't think there's enough demand from the dwindling numbers of DA/SA fans out there to support a new DA/SA micro compact. The latest small(ish) DA/SA I can recall being introduced was the Springfield XD-E, and it was a flop that only lasted a couple years. Though that was almost certainly partly due to its low capacity too.

However, if a DAO hammer-fired micro compact is an option, the Keltec P11 is roughly the same size as the P365 with the same capacity, or the Sig P290 is even a little smaller than the P365 but with lower capacity.

Otherwise, something like the CZ 2075 RAMI, HK P30SK, or Sig P224 are right about the smallest double stack DA/SAs you'll find, and they're all noticeably larger than the P365.

Unfortunately, nearly all of these models I've mentioned are discontinued, so it may take you a minute to find one on the used market...

IIRC, part of the challenge with most of the common DA/SA designs is that you still hafta sneak a hammer strut and spring somewhere down the backstrap of the frame. Most of the designs seem to replicate the same methods used in DA revolvers and I’ve never really seen a different design out there. I suppose that you could still use a small magazine design, like the P365, but the grip will definitely be bigger w the strut and the addition hammer will necessitate the need for some increase in the size of the rear of the slide to accommodate it.

I wouldn't mind if the grip was a little bigger than a P365...those things are designed for little people. The Glock 43X/48 are a lot easier for me to hold on to. The overall trimness and capacity are what appeal to me, not necessarily a one-to-one ratio copy of a P365.

I was thinking about this some today. The hammer and strut obviously add some size, but so would the decocker system. I wonder if it would be easier to miniaturize a DAO so you could forego that lever and linkage. I'd be ok with that, especially if they offered some kind of short-reset option like a DAK or LEM.

I realize the market has moved on from DA pistols, but maybe in light of the P320 fiasco it needs to take a step back. A pre-cocked striker fails with a bang...a DAO fails with a click or nothing at all. It's also far less prone to unintended trigger pulls through user error. There are ways that I'm willing to carry a DA gun that I'd never carry a striker, even if I was 100% confident it couldn't fire without the trigger being pulled.

Like the old P290 that is no longer made DAO .

I've got it. The P99 system. Striker fired....but DA/SA. We can package it small, its a proven design overall and the triggers are great. Just need to slim it/shrink it down with the magical magazine Pez dispenser tech and voila our perfect DA/SA P365....ish gun.

Ima just need you guys to gofundme about 3 million dollars give or take twenty bucks to get this thing rolling.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
I've got it. The P99 system. Striker fired....but DA/SA. We can package it small, its a proven design overall and the triggers are great. Just need to slim it/shrink it down with the magical magazine Pez dispenser tech and voila our perfect DA/SA P365....ish gun.

I was going post something like this myself.

I have to wonder though...

Walther made the P99 with so many different trigger systems. DA/SA (AS), true DAO (P990), DOA half-cock (QA), SA with re-strike (P99Q) -I think that one was set up that way. Then SA only with the PPQ and PDP.

Why then is the PPS only available with a partially re-cocking striker?

...And why on earth have they not made a 1½ stack PPS?

quote:

Originally posted by 808:
Like the old P290 that is no longer made DAO .

I've looked into that one. It is definitely small...you'd actually have to make it a little bigger. The problem is, they didn't work. Lots of complaints of light strikes and other malfunctions. But the proof of concept is there...you can cram a DA action into a little gun.

https://youtu.be/M6fSCXMVbrQ?si=61e_doADZVvLeedr

H&K P30 SK

The problem with the P30sk and to a lesser extent the P2000sk is they are chunky.

What I think “we” are looking for is something……
-Between the size of a P365/Hellcat and a Glock 43X.
-That has some type of decocking DA/SA system preferable that allows “thumbing” back into the holster.
-That is only about 1 inch wide
-That uses the new “bag of holding” magazine technology for capacity.

The, now discontinued, HK P2000sk come close’ish. If a gun like that was redesigned around the new magazine tech to thin it down and dump some weight, optics ready, with a slightly longer grip it would be close to perfect.

Of course this is all pie in the sky stuff since unless all the strikers rise up against us and go all 320 I doubt we will see any drive in this direction.

As for the PPS, I don’t think it was designed as a partially loaded striker purely for packaging. The writing was on the wall that strikers were in and it was all about chasing Glock. Hell as much as people lament Glock not being innovative……it still kinda is the market chasing Glock.

The more I think about it, while I think the P99 DA/SA striker system is the way to go, a modern polymer Smith 3913/CS9/SIG P239 with stack and a half mags would come mighty close to the mark.

Funnily enough, while I am not an AIWB guy, that carry position is the one driving a resurgence, albeit a small one, in the desire for hammer fired/DA/SA etc. styles of guns.

Not throwing shade at the AIWB guys it’s just not my thing and I have 25 years or so of “clear garment/right hip” unconscious thought and ……old dog, new tricks, give me my bone.

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:
I really like the size of the standard P365, and that's what I generally carry. But I've never been much of a fan of striker fired pistols, and I love my classic Sigs.

Not a DA/SA handgun, but a hammer-fired SAO, and Sig makes it. An all metal Sig P938 with the 7 rd 9mm extended mag is pretty much the same size as the 365. If you're not repelled by 1911 type of controls and less capacity, this could fit the bill.

I would be happy with a mini CZ P-07!

Pro tip- there is a reason all of these guns are discontinued. And it’s the same reason that SIG or anyone else will not produce something new in DA/SA.

No one will buy them. Well, aside from the OP and like six other guys.

Companies have lost a ton of money in the small DA/SA pistol market in the last 25 years.

Look at the Springfield XDE. Probably the closest to what the OP is asking for. It lasted on the market a year. Smith has dabbled. SIG has dabbled. Beretta has dabbled. But in the DA/SA market, you notice that SIG keeps introducing P226 LegionX5 this or that in……….SAO. They make little noise about the frames “should be cross compatible” but they know that offering a DA/SA option that they will sell “tens and tens” of them. To me and like six other dudes.

In 20 years, DA/SA will be on the garbage heap of bad ideas. Only a few will have found memories of all steel guns with iron sights. That required being decocked.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
I would be happy with a mini CZ P-07!

CZ should really attempt another polymer-framed RAMI. the original couldn't hold up but maybe now. It's still a little chunk though.

The problem with many DA/SA guns was the ~12 lb DA pull designed to ignite hard eastern block primers.

Then try a Beretta 92 LTT with a smooth ~7 lb DA and 3.5 lb SA. It works with all modern western ammo. Or a tuned CZ Shadow 2 with similar weights. If this had been the standard, "striker" pistols would not have been needed.

I still have a P225A1 single stack. I installed a Burke hammer strut and spring and the DA is now probably one of the best I've ever used. It's that good. The factory grip panels are a lot wider than they need to be, so if you can find some slim ones, that just might be the trick.

I kind of liked the XD-E, but again, DA was too heavy.

I miss my P99 AS and P99c AS. Best of both worlds, and still had better SA than any of the new PDP's. I traded them in on Gen 4 Glocks to try to make my life easier (holsters, lights, sights, etc.) but dumped the Glocks for P320's after a short time. I had PPS but hated the trigger, way to gritty.

If hammer fired was a requirement, I would be OK with the P238 and P938 SAO's. Or maybe the S&W CSX. Small, light, good triggers, great shooters.

Still waiting to see what happens with the Kriss Kymera, but that won't show up (if it shows up at all) until next year, and it's projected to have a sales price of about $2,000 (IIRC) so its targeted at a relatively small bunch of potential buyers.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
“bag of holding” magazine technology