So title kind of says it all, looking for a full sized, striker fired, optics ready 9mm pistol. Starting to get into shooting with red dots and bought a Ruger Mk IV 22/45 cut for the RMS pattern that I'm starting to practice with. So thinking the next step is getting a 9mm with a red dot on it.
So far the obvious 2 possibilities for me are the Smith M&P and the Sig 320. Trying to decide between the 2 platforms when I came across two other possibilities; the Beretta APX A1 and the H&K VP9. Glock is out of the picture, I've owned them in the past and never shot them well.
So what says the all knowing oracle of knowledge that is SigForum?
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Posts: 11936 | Location: Eagle River, AK | Registered: September 12, 2006
I’m a big fan of the VP9. I just picked up an optics ready slide for mine.
For me, the trigger is very good, reliability has been such that I can’t remember a failure, and the grip is easy to configure to your hand without buying additional grip frames.
If you buy a 320, get a .45 ACP, then get a 9 conversion kit. Sig claims that doesn't work, but I have 3 like that and they all fit the Wilson grip module and will shoot 9's, .357 Sig, and .40, in addition to the .45.
if all you're going to ever do is shoot 9, then anything is OK. But if you want to fool around without needing a gunsmith, get the 320. LOTS more options available.
If glock is out, then the VP9 is what I would pick. I've shot quite a number of rounds through one and have no complaints. If you haven't invested in the SIG 320 infrastructure then going there seems problematic to me but it does have many advantages in the easy of making up other configurations...
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VP9 all day. I own both the VP9 and the P320 and from my experience the HK is the better choice. I love the ergonomics with the changeable grips panels and back straps. It allows you to create a more customized fit to your hand. I liked it so much I went and bought a P30sk for carry 2 weeks later.
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Originally posted by Devereaux: If you buy a 320, get a .45 ACP, then get a 9 conversion kit. Sig claims that doesn't work, but I have 3 like that and they all fit the Wilson grip module and will shoot 9's, .357 Sig, and .40, in addition to the .45.
if all you're going to ever do is shoot 9, then anything is OK. But if you want to fool around without needing a gunsmith, get the 320. LOTS more options available.
I've got an X-Ten and thought about getting a 9mm conversion kit. I've read conflicting reports if that actually works or not. Kind of abandoned the idea when I realized the cost of the exchange kit with one magazine and the bar of soap original grip frame was $429 and a brand new 320 X-Full with 2 mags and the X grip frame was $600.
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Posts: 11936 | Location: Eagle River, AK | Registered: September 12, 2006
If you're even moderately interested in an APX A1, get one now while they're stupid cheap. Beretta has a $100 rebate running on the full size APX through the end of the year. You can get an OR full size one for under $300. While they're currently out of stock, here's a deal RKGuns had on them last week for $349.99 before rebate.
The M&P and 320 are both good picks. The VP9 is good, too, but I don't think it enjoys the aftermarket that the other two do. I personally would pass on the APX. I have two of the originals and they just have not caught on. They're probably a good enough gun, but there is no real aftermarket for them. A decent choice in a sea of decent choices.
The P320 has a lot to offer with its modularity, especially if you decide that you don't like the configuration that you start with. I think a lot fewer people own one FCU and a bunch of slides and grips than you would expect. The biggest beef with the P320 as an optics platform is that Sig has changed their optics cut several times. I think that the current R2 cut (native to DPP/R1P with additional RMR pattern screw holes and a dovetailed rear sight) is probably as close to the "final" iteration as we're going to get, though, so if you're buying a new gun, you probably don't have anything to worry about there.
I think the M&P 2.0 is underappreciated. The guns have good ergos, outstanding grip texture, and a decent aftermarket. I do not particularly care for the plastic factory optics plates, but aftermarket metal plates are available. An M&P 2.0 with an Apex trigger is a seriously competent pistol.
Posts: 5253 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011
The P320 is about the only striker-fired gun that really interests me these days. I've tried the Smiths, Springfields, and Walthers, and they just don't do anything for me. The VP9 that I dealt with belonged to a student, and it was an unreliable POS with a crummy trigger. I could live with a Glock, but you ruled those out in your OP. I got pushed into the P320 by work, but I've been happy with mine, and have a bunch of them now. They have all been extremely reliable and very shootable. The factory RX optic-equipped slides are good stuff, too...it's the easy button to getting into an optic-equipped pistol. The Romeo 1 doesn't win all the Youtube tests but they have nice clear glass and have held up well for us. The new Romeo X looks pretty interesting, too.
The modularity feature is the real deal, too. You can make a P320 into just about anything you want, and there is a TON of aftermarket stuff out there now, too, if the factory options don't scratch your itch. If you're buying new stuff direct from sig, the conversion kits are expensive, but if you shop around there are tons of deals to be had. Kind of like how you can build your AR-15 into anything you want these days, the P320 has become the handgun version of that.
Posts: 9551 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006
Of your choices The Smith M&P 2.0 would probably be my choice as I was pretty impressed with the. 2.0, especially the compact.
The 320 simply has far too much bad press for my liking deserved or not.
The VP9 is a good little striker gun and I am an HK manual of arms guy but the VP is kinda …. MEH to me.
The APX is kind of a dark horse. They are stupid cheap and from everything I’ve seen and handled they really are a great gun. I’ve never shot one though and as was mentioned aftermarket is weak if that matters. Were this me, however, I MIGHT give this one a try as the price to performance seems awesome.
While I am not really a “Glock guy” either I do have to say my first optics ready 9mm was a Glock 45 with a Holosun SCS on top of it and I am tickled pink with it. It’s the first Glock I have loved not just merely liked. Just food for thought.
"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
Posts: 8014 | Location: On the water | Registered: July 25, 2002
I've got a couple of P320's and really like them and shoot them well. I picked up a Springfield Echelon last week and was very impressed. Finally got a chance to shoot it yesterday and remain pleased with it. It seems like they took the best features from SIG and Glock to make the Echelon. Ergonomics are fantastic and optic mounting can be accomplished without mounting plates.
Posts: 1165 | Location: Petal, MS | Registered: January 21, 2012
If we are suggesting outside of the choices, I quite like Walther’s offerings PPQ/PDP. The triggers are a bit too light/crisp for me personally to use defensively/in carry (it’s a me thing) but outside of that I love ‘em. Feel great, shoot awesome and frankly look pretty good too (I know, I know it’s a tool who cares? Well I am a gun geek and I see them more then just tools so I enjoy an aesthetic part of them as well, sue me I’m not an “operator” )
"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
Posts: 8014 | Location: On the water | Registered: July 25, 2002
Are Glock style guns an option? If they are, then I'd recommend anything in the Shadow Systems line up. The Foundation is their no frills version that is still less than a Glock MOS and comes with backstraps that change from the Glock grip angle to a standard one.
The other option is the BUL Armory Axe. They're $620 and don't have the dreaded Glock grip and also comes ready for optics. The only downside is you have to buy direct from BUL while the Shadow Systems can be found anywhere (You may have to ask if they can change to grip into the non-Glock style on the Shadow).
Sig and HK are both good platforms, like to add another for your consideration, CZ P-10F, $499 retail, you can probably get it a bit less at street price, 19 round mags, if you want to kick up the action a bit the folks at Cajun Gunworks have drop in trigger kits as well that are proven.
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