Btw, just to clarify, I grabbed only the pics, not the actual guns. They ain't mine.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Btw, I should add that the gun itself is excellent, mechanically/functionally. It's all the other stuff that work against it.

I bought on early on. I really like the gun. The grip is bulky, but I don't find that to be an issue for me.

I DID have an issue with the 14-round magazines and have a couple that just will drip out of the gun.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I would be willing to bet that the 227 will be a thing of the past in short order.

Something else to consider jl, you just view the Beretta vids posted here by Ray and compare the function, speed and cyclic rate compared to the plastic 320 shot by him and tell us which piece is a better pistol. That's a very compatent shooter showing us both guns running on a equal corse of fire.

Can you provide a link to the vids?

As the owner of two P227 SAS's, I can say Sig Sauer made a big mistake in discontinuing that model (same thing with the P229 SAS)- it's the smoothest shooting .45 I've ever had. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat if I can find one at a fair price. All I carry are Mec-Gar 10-round magazines and they all function flawlessly.

As a former LEO who started in the 1970's, I recall carrying a 6-shot revolver and having a total of 12 rounds in dump-pouches, so carrying one extra magazine is just fine with me.

Besides, if you need to fire more than 21 rounds in a firefight, you're hanging out in the wrong neighborhood!

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I would be willing to bet that the 227 will be a thing of the past in short order.

Not a surprise, seeing that only 2 models are left on SIG's website, the original full-size Nitron and the RX full-size. Probably will disappear by next year.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Btw, just to clarify, I grabbed only the pics, not the actual guns. They ain't mine.

Nah, I got that. But thanks for posting the pics of the grips, hopefully they'll show up here on Freedom's Shores pretty soon. Frankly, I'd like to be able to get a pair attached to a black P226 LDC like in your pic, but they're running around $1600-$1800 and that's a bit thick for me right now, sadly....

quote:

Originally posted by SIGWolf:

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I would be willing to bet that the 227 will be a thing of the past in short order.

Something else to consider jl, you just view the Beretta vids posted here by Ray and compare the function, speed and cyclic rate compared to the plastic 320 shot by him and tell us which piece is a better pistol. That's a very compatent shooter showing us both guns running on a equal corse of fire.

Can you provide a link to the vids?

Not with my phone but he is piedrarc here in Sig Forum. He has a Beretta vid on page 4 in Pistols. He is crossrifles on youtube and IDPA. While he speaks highly of his 320, in that video the gun is sorry assed. Him on the Beretta by contrast.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGWolf:

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I would be willing to bet that the 227 will be a thing of the past in short order.

Something else to consider jl, you just view the Beretta vids posted here by Ray and compare the function, speed and cyclic rate compared to the plastic 320 shot by him and tell us which piece is a better pistol. That's a very compatent shooter showing us both guns running on a equal corse of fire.

Can you provide a link to the vids?

Not with my phone but he is piedrarc here in Sig Forum. He has a Beretta vid on page 4 in Pistols. He is crossrifles on youtube and IDPA. While he speaks highly of his 320, in that video the gun is sorry assed. Him on the Beretta by contrast.

Isn't this thread about the P227? I watch Ray's videos too (in fact they 'helped' me to start buying Beretta 92s) but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Are you comparing the P227 to the P320? From what I can tell Ray does well in matches no matter what he shoots regardless of the 'cyclic rate.'

I would agree that a P227 would be a poor choice for USPSA.

Only because of caliber. I'd still take a .38 Super (or two) if SIG would make them.

quote:

Originally posted by cyberiad:

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGWolf:

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
I would be willing to bet that the 227 will be a thing of the past in short order.

Something else to consider jl, you just view the Beretta vids posted here by Ray and compare the function, speed and cyclic rate compared to the plastic 320 shot by him and tell us which piece is a better pistol. That's a very compatent shooter showing us both guns running on a equal corse of fire.

Can you provide a link to the vids?

Not with my phone but he is piedrarc here in Sig Forum. He has a Beretta vid on page 4 in Pistols. He is crossrifles on youtube and IDPA. While he speaks highly of his 320, in that video the gun is sorry assed. Him on the Beretta by contrast.

Isn't this thread about the P227? I watch Ray's videos too (in fact they 'helped' me to start buying Beretta 92s) but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Are you comparing the P227 to the P320? From what I can tell Ray does well in matches no matter what he shoots regardless of the 'cyclic rate.'

I would agree that a P227 would be a poor choice for USPSA.

Yes its about the P227. Enough has been pointed out of its minor qwerks. Its still a fine pistol. I was merely responding to jljones post about its demise because all the guns which should remain viable are polymers. All the effort into the P, and its not a P series gun, 320 and, IMO its still a pig in a poke. Only thing I've ever stated which I like about it is its FCU. The frames are ugly, its grip looks like it belongs on a toilet tank. Its the 250, which is also not a P series, revised. JL Jones states he wants all side arms to be polymer, others dont. It has its foot hold in the markets and there are many excellent defense guns framed in polymer. That seems to be its limit, exception being the 320 X. To me, the 320 is unproven. Now we've saddled our military with them due to modularity. Its just another plastic 9mm. The 320 vid posted last year by Ray clearly shows a gun which is not so good in function. It sounds cheap when slide racked. It sounds cheap at mag change. Its slide seems slow and dragging. Its been worked on a bit by GGI. I just dont like the damn thing. I want all the P227 models. Including a all stainless. But Sig is busy molding.

I tried to love two P227s in my past, they just didn't do it for me, especially when there is a CZ 97 in the safe. No more chubby girl, with a thin waist..lol

JDG:
Just remember - that P227 "chubby girl, with a thin waist" packs a mean punch! Especially in the SAS version.

[QUOTE] Originally posted by 12131:

"...factory mags (10-rounders) are hard to find. That's the often heard complaint."

That's a specious comment to make - Obviously you haven't looked here - www.topgunsupply.com They have plenty of 10-round P227 magazines available at at $32.95 each.

Having both a P226 and P228, I don't find the E2 grips to be any problem at all. In fact, my P227 SAS's are probably the most comfortable .45 pistol to shoot, and I've owned several 1911's and Colt Commanders to which I can compare.

quote:

Originally posted by flwing:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

"...factory mags (10-rounders) are hard to find. That's the often heard complaint."

That's a specious comment to make - Obviously you haven't looked here - www.topgunsupply.com They have plenty of 10-round P227 magazines available at at $32.95 each.

Having both a P226 and P228, I don't find the E2 grips to be any problem at all. In fact, my P227 SAS's are probably the most comfortable .45 pistol to shoot, and I've owned several 1911's and Colt Commanders to which I can compare.

Nothing specious about it. My comment was about the general trend I've seen from folks. You are reporting a point in time. Btw, "specious", that's a big word. This Oriental Redneck had to look it up.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 12131,

I think its 14 round magazines were specious. The Talo model reported at Shot was a bit stainless specious. Is their a specious Legion coming ?

quote:

Originally posted by flwing:
JDG:
Just remember - that P227 "chubby girl, with a thin waist" packs a mean punch! Especially in the SAS version.

Meh....
That's all I got to say about that.
I'll take my CZ97 and Commander 1911 any day before a 227 again.

"Different strokes for different folks".

I am quite fond of both of mine but completely understand why it is a slow seller.

Even as a lover of classic Sigs there are things about it that shouldn't be a pain, but are.

Marginal grip screw/bushings for the G10 grips that belong on the gun, bad balance (my .02) with the goofy looking and unreliable 14 round mags, etc.

Reliable 12 rd mags with the same type of reasonable looking +2 extension on other classic Sigs would have gone a long way to help.

FYI I bought very early, but Sig swapped out all my 14 round mags for 10 rounders. Results were too mixed for me on the 14 rounders and I could never see myself trusting them. 10 round mags have been perfectly reliable as I expect from a classic Sig.

My thoughts on the p227 were that it looked cool initially, but Glock has Sig beat on .45acp guns. A Glock 30s is the same round count in a smaller than G19 sized package. If I wanted a full size .45acp duty gun, the G21 Gen4 is hard to beat.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Sig guy through and through, but the p227 just didn't do anything for me.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
I was merely responding to jljones post about its demise because all the guns which should remain viable are polymers.

Not to derail the thread further, but I want to make a clarification. The P227 is soon to be gone. I can't tell you that officially, but I'm telling you that from what I see. It is not because all the viable guns are polymer. If I came across that way, it is entirely on me, and I do apologize.

The reasoning as I understand it is that it just was not a hot seller. .45 sales, .40 sales in all the other models are something like 1 other caliber full sized gun to 19 9mm pistols. My local shop reports that it is closer to 1 in almost 120 sales. Now that is locally, and take it for what you paid for it. When you factor cost, caliber, operating system, and production time, the P227 just doesn't sell in great numbers. The market is soft right now, and when you have a company that has 50 great products, and they are all competing for machine time, you're going to produce what is selling. This is much like 239 sales that some people are up in arms about. The P239 went away because they just weren't selling many .40 and 357 guns, and the gun was duplicated by the P225 in the 9mm realm. (also remember, right or wrong, that people who are great people and shooters that hang out on this board who are super/hyper informed aren't the mass of the gun buying public.)

NON-POLYMER SIG pistols will be around for a while to come. Probably for the rest of my life time. And they still sell. But, the P320 outsells them still. Part of it is price point. Part of it is people misunderstand the DA stroke. Part of it is we live in a striker fired world, and striker fired is the standard these days in the pistol world.

There is only one gun company in the wonder 9 world that is probably selling more metal 9mm pistols than polymer. And that is Beretta, and they are trying hard to change that. I don't have any numbers to prove it, but interest in Berettas seem to be lukewarm for the APX, and pretty hot for the 92 series. Another factor for Beretta is the fact that 92 series pistols don't cost much more than the APX. Where there is a pretty large gap between the 320 and P Series.

My personal preference is down to two guns. The M&P 2.0, and the P226. I have a 25 year old love affair with the P226. I started my career with one based upon a recommendation from a gunshop. I went through my firearms education as I learned how to be fast and accurate with the P226. I only had to ditch it because work went Glock. I'm sorta kinda glad that they did, because I learned a lot about Glocks and M&Ps during that time. It also made me appreciate a lot of pistols, and made me not be a fanboy or cheerleader for just SIG. I'll sure prop them up when they are right, but those that were here in 2005 or so knows that I burned them down when they were wrong (MIM'ing trigger bars, shoddy slide cuts, horrible QC).

When/if SIG ever turns out the lights on P Series production, I'll be the dude standing in the corner crying. I cut my teeth so to speak with the P Series. I've seen the good times, the bad times, and seen a lot of shit that people made issues of that aren't really issues. Just like that sentimental feelings we all have about that first girlfriend, first car, first job, etc, I feel the same way for the P Series. When I pick up my main training gun, it is like shaking hands with an old friend. I prefer the double action shot to even the striker fired guns that I like. With a P226, I drive the gun and shit just happens magically at a high level.

I probably will continue to teach with lots of guns. But, when you see me competing, it will be with either a 2.0 or a P226. They are what does it for me.

Here is a great picture from the match last weekend. It shows a press out with the hammer just about to break at extension. Ray has been giving me a lot of crap about not wearing a GoPro, so I'm going to fold to pressure and start wearing one.



Hope this helps.

Apologies to the OP for further derailing his thread.