quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:
At least Taurus has a lifetime warranty on their crap. What a complete disappointment.

On newer pistols, to the original buyer, SIG does, too. For some time now.

quote:

Originally posted by 10-7 leo:

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:
At least Taurus has a lifetime warranty on their crap. What a complete disappointment.

On newer pistols, to the original buyer, SIG does, too. For some time now.

Sure. Like their "voluntary update" program in lieu of a proper recall.
When a company fucks up and makes a lot of sub-standard products you don't need to come to their defense. You should hold your dollars until they fix whatever issues they are having.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
I think any new gun model, from any mass market manufacturer, shouldn't be bought for 6-12 months after release. Problems just need time to be shaken out.

I agree. Just wait. No matter the manufacturer. Just let it breathe. First year model cars same thing. Spend your $ when it is well vetted.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
I think any new gun model, from any mass market manufacturer, shouldn't be bought for 6-12 months after release. Problems just need time to be shaken out.

I agree. Just wait. No matter the manufacturer. Just let it breathe. First year model cars same thing. Spend your $ when it is well vetted.

This is a big problem with most ndustries today and it seems that Sig has fallen into the same policies. I just don't get it when I still see people lining up to fork over good money to get the latest phone, car, or gun with known issues and from companies with histories of using it's customers as the beta tester.
If these products would sit on a shelf and collect dust it would send a message that the consumers have wised up and quality would increase.

Its not simply a company doing a half ass job or planning to use customers as beta testers as some would imply. Do we seriously believe that management has a meeting where they say, "well it's close, lets launch a multi-million dollar campaign with our newest product, put our reputation on the line and see if it works, no need to test....


Remember that no matter what Sig does we have haters who can't wait to see Sig's newest product fail. (I'd bet any company fail, hell they probably the kind of person that sits at a train track hoping for a wreck, or Nascar for a wreck)

No testing is as harsh as end user production field testing, nobody is as hard on things as end users, you can test 100 items from R&D and not have the results you'll get when 1000 or 10000 end users get their paws on it. Things crop up when you go from hand built R&D to actual production, it could be as simple as a cnc machine in the line having an issue that wasn't there initially.

Sigs recognized an issue, it may be small in size, or not but they have taken up front steps to correct what may be simply a manufacturing defect or flaw that reared it's head during live production.

Shit happens, the boo birds will always come out, the majority of those dropping bombs about never buying one were never going to buy one in the first place.

The companies know that there are enough people who have no patience, and have to have the latest releases that they can get away with this.

Really, I think this has gone on forever. It's just now (okay, a while now), with the advent of the internet, that someone who got a clunker can let the world know instantly. The flip side of this is it's the complainers that squawk the most. If a company ships out 100,000 units of a product, and five come up defective, three of those five will get on the web and publicize it where consumers of those products look, and everyone will hear about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
I think any new gun model, from any mass market manufacturer, shouldn't be bought for 6-12 months after release. Problems just need time to be shaken out.

I agree. Just wait. No matter the manufacturer. Just let it breathe. First year model cars same thing. Spend your $ when it is well vetted.

This is a big problem with most ndustries today and it seems that Sig has fallen into the same policies. I just don't get it when I still see people lining up to fork over good money to get the latest phone, car, or gun with known issues and from companies with histories of using it's customers as the beta tester.
If these products would sit on a shelf and collect dust it would send a message that the consumers have wised up and quality would increase.

quote:

three of those five will get on the web and publicize it where consumers of those products look, and everyone will hear about it.

And a couple of them will be youtoobers with channels that make big bucks off hits to their videos so you'll see them out there asap.

Theres no real difference other than today we know about stuff the minute it happens...

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:
That’s true but Sig makes a habit of it....290, 320, 365, etc...

Cut it out.

Not sure if serious?

quote:

Originally posted by watarski:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:
That’s true but Sig makes a habit of it....290, 320, 365, etc...

Cut it out.

Not sure if serious?

Para said it, I'm pretty damn sure he is serious. I mean, it's not like he's the site owner, or other such silliness...

Just read on Osage County Guns facebook page that Sig has resumed shipping the P365 (or so they have been told at an industry show they are attending). They also have pics of the X-Ray sights on a P365. Photo credit to Osage County Guns (and a damn good dealer they are!)

quote:

SIG SAUER warrants that the enclosed firearm was originally manufactured free of defects in material, workmanship and mechanical function. For the lifetime of the original purchaser, SIG SAUER agrees to correct any defect in the firearm for the original purchaser by repair, adjustment or replacement, at SIG SAUER’ option, with the same or comparable quality components (or by replacing the firearms at SIG SAUER’ option); provided, however, that the firearm is returned unloaded and freight prepaid to SIG SAUER at 18 Industrial Drive, Exeter, NH 03833.

I have to laugh at some of the comments that make it seem this handgun was designed, developed and manufactured within the past few months. It's been around in various forms for almost two years. They have tested the crap out of them to get to this point. Unfortunately, the manufacturing was not up to par. Yet it was discovered and it's being rectified before more than a handful left the factory. In light of the change to the Wray sights, that doesn't help the shipping schedule. Meanwhile, the back orders for it are mounting rapidly so this hasn't done much of anything to slow the desire to get one.

If they’ve resumed shipping it would be nice to know exactly what the tweaks are.

Mine has been perfect but am still curious.

IMO, HK has been the closet competitor to Sig for some time. 2 premier manufactures.

I can’t think of a single HK product released that had as many (any?) issues after production release as the Sig P320 or now the P365 (just to name a few) and personally don’t know of any product recalls or voluntary upgrades by HK, but I may have missed them in all honesty.

I also wouldn’t count the Military Arms channel gauntlet test on the VP 9 as in the same category as a defective product.

Other manufactures are not having the issues Sig has had for several years and on such a consistent basis. Yes, they might have had 1 or 2, but Sig is consistently missing the QC and product development/test lifecycle management goals for a tier 1 manufacturer like they used to be.

There are known manufacturing best practices, testing and control criteria that should be common practice in the vetting of new product development. To chalk these thing up to a out of spec milling machines, misses those controls that should be in place to deliver a quality product up front on a consistent basis.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackwater:
There are known manufacturing best practices, testing and control criteria that should be common practice in the vetting of new product development. To chalk these thing up to a out of spec milling machines, misses those controls that should be in place to deliver a quality product up front on a consistent basis.

I'm in manufacturing. I can say based on my own experience that even using "best practices," DFMEA/PFMEA, tons of testing and control, and way too many hours spent in meetings, the old maxim still applies: "Sh*t happens."

Sometimes, the boogers just don't show up until production rates rise. I might be able to run an operation correctly ten times every single day, but when asked to increase the rate to 20 or 100 a lot of things can change unexpectedly.

Now, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't still try like hell to make a correct part every single time, nor that we should just shrug our shoulders and accept it, but the fact remains. "Best laid plans," and all that.

Put my name on the wait list for one at Sig.

Does anyone have one that they've put more than 1000rds downrange yet?

So I went ahead and picked up a G43. I was going to get on the list but I didn’t honk I’m going to wait it out a bit. Still going to get one, jus not as much of a hurry

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:

I'm in manufacturing. I can say based on my own experience that even using "best practices," DFMEA/PFMEA, tons of testing and control, and way too many hours spent in meetings, the old maxim still applies: "Sh*t happens."

You're right shit does happen.
My point was, it happens more to Sig than most.

That might be an indication that there is a systemic issue, ya think?

quote:

Originally posted by smithnsig:
So I went ahead and picked up a G43. I was going to get on the list but I didn’t honk I’m going to wait it out a bit. Still going to get one, jus not as much of a hurry

You’ll like the G43. It’s a Glock, after all.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackwater:
That might be an indication that there is a systemic issue, ya think?

That happens, too.