I picked up an early USP40c a while back. I liked it so much I got a new USP45. And then a USP9. And a VP9. And a HK45c. And a HK45T. And now I'm hunting for LEM kits...

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Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
They had a standard USP that had a better DA trigger to it that I handled and dry fired but didn't shoot. I also got to mess with a P30SK LEM. The trigger was weird. I had the thought that it honestly wasn't that bad, and then I checked the reset and found that the reset was the full ride all the way back. That kind of sunk it for me. I'm a "ride the reset" shooter, so I don't think LEM is going to do it for me. I could be wrong, and I'd have to shoot one. I swear the video I watched the other night, the guy said the reset was only a few millimeters and I could be wrong about where it reset, but I didn't feel or hear anything until the trigger was all the way forward. I think a V3 is probably the way. I decided not to bother trying out a VP9, as I don't see a lot of sense in trading one European striker-fired polymer 9mm for another one.

If I'm understanding your post correctly, you're probably doing it wrong. The 'full ride all the way back' reset on an LEM Trigger is essentially only in a 'second strike' type scenario when the gun didn't actually fire/cycle. If when dry-firing, you hold the trigger back, cycle the slide again and then ride the trigger out to the reset you'll find it is actually quite short, in fact only a few millimeters! I suggest you head back for another dry fire test drive on that LEM trigger...I think you'll actually be impressed with the reset!

LEM is WAY different than DA/SA and in some respects, kinda the opposite of the way DAK works. It IS a bit 'weird' until you fully understand it! When you chamber a round, whether initially from a fresh magazine, or the result of firing/cycling the weapon, the Hammer Spring is compressed (pre-cocked) and the energy is retained by the Sear. At that point, the Trigger has a very long/light pull (technically 'pre-travel') and Hammer is controlled by/only has to overcome the Trigger Return Spring. When pulled fully rearward, the Trigger stacks at the end almost like a SA. When the Trigger 'breaks', the Sear releases the energy of the Hammer Spring, transferring it to the Hammer, and driving it forward to strike the Firing Pin, thus cycling the weapon. When that happens, the sequence occurs all over again, similar to SA firing/cycling in a DA/SA weapon. Another desirable similarity is that since it’s a true hammer-fired pistol, you can thumb the Hammer while reholstering.

More HK than Sig here as well. My favorite is the USPc but I prefer the P30 grip. I have a P30, USPc, HK45, USP 45, P7, and a VP70. All bought used. I had a USPc in 357 Sig but the selling prices went too high to resist moving it along.
I do like the Light LEM trigger and I think it helps make up for the dramatically curved trigger on HK. All that curvature seems to make for a lot of friction on the heavy double action pull of SA/DA.
I still shoot my Sigs more accurately, particularly the P220 and a well used P229. I do like all metal, hammer fired guns.

Once I tried the HK Match trigger found in their USP Elite and Tactical, for example, I was hooked. All the other triggers - HK45, P30, VP9, P2000SK, etc, all paled in comparison. A nicely tuned light LEM would get close. Nowadays, it's all Sig, Walther, and a couple HK P7s.

The only thing I really desire on the P2000 / USPc and P30's is the American Magazine release. Probably because my 1st 10 semi auto pistols were all P2XX series and not paddle release.

The HKs are nice pistols. I have a P30L and have previously owned a USP Custom Combat as well. The P30s and VP9s are super on ergonomics. The P30 feels like it was designed for my hand.

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Those folks whose name shall not be spoken are having an HK sale this weekend.

I caught the bug as well. I recently got a P30 again, as I stated prior, as I wanted to give it another try but remembered now why I didn't like the ones I had prior, due to the trigger trough. I also ordered a VP9-B, as I noticed the "B" model did not have the trough in the trigger housing. What a difference in the feel of the 2 guns. I just love the feel of the frame in my hand as HK just makes the best grip/frame option,in my opinion.

I went all in and bought a couple JM Custom quality holsters and a bunch of mags for them. For some reason, I didn't think I had enough mags and bought some more mags on top of the ones I already ordered.

Hk has a deal going on right now with the VP9 pistols, offering a $100 credit voucher to their HK Webstore but I think tomorrow is the end of the promotion. Another reason I got sucked in.

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Originally posted by cslinger:

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I think I'm finding my way back to hammer-fired guns.

And we welcome you back into the light with joy and forgiveness. .

Ha! Yeah, it's funny, I've been reading comments from members here for years who did the same thing. I guess it's not horribly surprising. I guess I can look at it as a good thing that I can pick up a hammer fired pistol or a striker fired pistol with any grip angle and just shoot it reasonably well. I'm not Jerry Miculek, hell, I'm not even Jerry Jones, but I can at least put them all on a target.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
If you do end up liking/picking up the P30, try the P2000. Think Glock 19 to the P30’s Glock 17/45. Same trigger and decocker mechanism and feels super small.

I'll definitely keep an eye out. That local range didn't have any for rental or sale, but that full size USP felt really good.

nhracecraft, I'm sure you're right. Really, I'd need to shoot one and spend a little time with LEM to really understand the system. It seems very much like a love or hate kind of thing and I feel more neutral about it. That DA takeup was weird. The second strike DA seemed excessively heavy, heavier than the V3 I compared it to in an A/B for sure. That pre-cocked mode... if I could shoot it riding the reset, I think I could be happy with LEM, based on what I'm reading and seeing in videos, it was just take some work and lots of practice.

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Originally posted by maxwayne:
Those folks whose name shall not be spoken are having an HK sale this weekend.

Sheedy & En? Can we not talk about them or something? I may have missed that, but damn, $600 for the P30S with three 17rd mags and night sights blows the doors off any price I've seen locally. That's $50 cheaper than the clowns across town who wanted to sell me a used one with two mags for $650. Don't really want the version with the safety, but I'm also not sure I really care.

quote:

Originally posted by patw:
Hk has a deal going on right now with the VP9 pistols, offering a $100 credit voucher to their HK Webstore but I think tomorrow is the end of the promotion. Another reason I got sucked in.

That keeps getting mentioned and it's incredibly tempting. I just don't know that I want a striker HK. I guess I need to shoot one also. See, the problem is, if I get a VP9 and really like it, I'll end up trying to justify dumping all my Glocks for HK's just because.

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I've been reading comments from members here for years who did the same thing.

We are all gun geeks we all have strikers and hammers and lions and tigers….errr you get the point. I shoot striker fired stuff all the time. I am just most comfortable with DA/SA for my self defense guns and just really like the HK/paddles/manual of arms.


Keep in mind CDNN always has the normal P30 (without the safety) for a good price as well. That said they are almost always DA/SA. I think the safety on a P30 is overkill. Between being DA/SA and having a that HK trigger that I like to think is just an additional safety device I just don’t think it needs a safety unless you are going to run C&L.

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I'll end up trying to justify dumping all my Glocks for HK's just because

We don’t dump guns, we move them to the back of the safe so we can find them and reacquaint almost like getting a new gun for free. . Besides we’ve all been there when we have a malfunction or parts breakage that pisses us off and we grumble back to whatever until we realize they all break or have an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
nhracecraft, I'm sure you're right. Really, I'd need to shoot one and spend a little time with LEM to really understand the system. It seems very much like a love or hate kind of thing and I feel more neutral about it. That DA takeup was weird. The second strike DA seemed excessively heavy, heavier than the V3 I compared it to in an A/B for sure. That pre-cocked mode... if I could shoot it riding the reset, I think I could be happy with LEM, based on what I'm reading and seeing in videos, it was just take some work and lots of practice.

With LEM, your first pull of the trigger, the long take up, raises and drops the hammer…then you HAVE to cycle the slide. It does not behave like a normal DA or SA/DA trigger. Think about dry firing a Glock. If you dry fired a Glock trigger, and went to press again without cycling the slide, that’s the equivalent of dry firing a LEM and not cycling the slide. That second, heavy pull that you felt was because the trigger is now performing the duty of resetting, then raising and dropping the hammer.

Don’t mean for this to sound condescending-I’ve seen enough people confused by this aspect of LEM, thinking that it should behave as a DAO or TDA trigger.

Outside of that, it can be a challenging trigger to run fast and accurately. This phrase has been around for a while; it’s a “People management trigger.” It has a lot of take up on the initial press, but it’s not a heavy pull. Subsequent presses can be made from reset like a TDA trigger, but when you come oof the trigger, it doesn’t stay in SA, it goes back to the not-heavy DA mode without having to decock. Whether that’s valuable or not is debatable, but I’ve always thought the logic is sound.

Hope I didn’t come off as trying to pre school you. Emjoy the HK fixation. I am a fan as well.

Interesting, I have the Light LEM on almost all my HK pistols that have that option and I really like that LEM.

I have had H&K USPc, P30S, P30L, VP9, VP9L

I sent my USPc to HK for a 3.5 LB LEM trigger around 2004 or something when I first had bought it, I also chose to keep the safety.

I love that particular low lb LEM trigger, the reset isn't long and the pull is consistent and light.


I personally don't like H&K's DA/SA trigger as it comes compared to the way SIG's DA/SA feels.

HK's Light LEM or a Gray Guns DA/SA trigger upgrades on a H&K feels great and are easy to fire rapidly and accurately for me.

I have over 20 years of experience with Glocks, SIGs and H&K mostly and a lot of random guns. .

I like Glock's trigger with the 3.5 lb connector.

I like most classic SIG DA/SA triggers as well and have no problems firing accurately and rapidly with handguns from the above companies.

I have a USP 45 Compact and use it for a nightstand gun. Very nice pistol!

I had a P2000SK which I intended to carry, but it felt like a 2X4 in my medium-size hand. Traded it off for a CZ 75 PCR Compact!

+1 on the Gray Guns SRT for the P30. It really improved the pistol.

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While repeating myself I will also encourage you to buy the Grayguns parts. Personally I think the flat steel trigger is the best 95 bucks you will spend. I also like, almost love, real close to love, the short reset kit. Added those parts to all my compact HK’s and P30’s. Great add. Even made my DA/SA USPc a better gun (added lighter mainspring as well, it’s like a new gun).

I really like HKs as well as Sigs. I am more acquainted with HK brand and have owned most calibers and models. Many like the DA/SA cocked and locked trigger of the USP series. The grips are too big for my hands. The SA is great. DA not so much. I don’t really like the double action on the P30 or the L. The single action is nice. I see the value of having the double action first pull and the decocker.
I really like the light LEM on the P2000 and HK45c (with talon rubber grip decals). I also am a fan of the striker-fired VP9. It works well with or without a suppressor. The P2000 is a perfect carry size in my opinion. On HKPro.com you might find some decent deals in classifieds or tips where to shop. Others may differ but, in my opinion, HK is a top tier handgun manufacturer. They have the reputation of being “over engineered”. Mike at Cross Creek Guns has been good to me in the past as well as CDNN.