I have a Vickers made gun made to my specs. It is truly a custom gun. I’d say a Wilson super grade is pretty custom. I’d add Wayne Novak to that list. Jason Burton is a great guy and would absolutely be at the top of my list. My brother has one and it is unbelievable.

Expensive guns are no different than expensive cars. The relationship between price and performance is not linear.

In other words, the $5,000 pistol does not give five times the performance of a $1,000 pistol. Just like a $120,000 car is not four times "better" than a $30,000 car. I think it's called "The point of diminishing returns".

On the other hand, if you want an expensive pistol, you can afford it and it will make you happy - BUY IT!

Engineers design guns gunsmiths don't. Machines make the parts for guns, if the guns are complicated enough to require some parts to be adjusted based on selected tolerances then people do these jobs.

Gunsmiths adjust the parts in the gun, they don't redesign the platform.

The Modular guns today are eracing the need for gunsmiths, that's good because who wants the days
of complicatied guns like the 1911 that needs a gunsmith to keep them running. The future is drop in custom parts that allow the owner to simply make whatever level of gun he wishes.

The Sig 320 legion is a perfect example of a gun that competes in competition very well and it doesn't need a gunsmith to do it. That's what people want and that's what the Sig engineers have invented.

What does a $4000 Nighthawk do that a $1200 legion doesn't. nada and there are things that the Sig legion does that the $4000 nighthawk doesn't ay almost 4 times the price.

quote:

Gunsmiths adjust the parts in the gun, they don't redesign the platform.


What does a $4000 Nighthawk do that a $1200 legion doesn't.

You're not too familiar with a world of true customs, methinks. Both of my Christiansen's guns had parts designed, made, and patented by Ned. That's pretty much right there in "redesigning the platform".
The inside work on his and some other gunsmith's gun is something you won't get anywhere.

Nighthawk builds low volume 1911/2011 SAO guns that P320 is not. "What one does that other doesn't" isn't the criterion to define custom vs semi vs mass. They both shoot bullets well, but that's where similarities end. If you must ask that way, P320 will never have NH trigger, it will never cycle like NH, it doesn't offer carry comp options, it is not as accurate, and some ergonomic adjustments attainable on a 1911 aren't available on a 320. How well is 320 vetted with .45acp?
Financially diminishing returns with customs and semi customs are, by definition, diminishing. That said, if someone wants their gun to cycle like a rollerball,they won't get it with mass production and that may be worth it to them.

quote:

Originally posted by jjc:
What does a $4000 Nighthawk do that a $1200 legion doesn't. nada and there are things that the Sig legion does that the $4000 nighthawk doesn't ay almost 4 times the price.

Well it wasn't hand built, for one. You may not see a difference in performance between the two, but you can see a difference in craftsmanship. It may require you to look close. It may not matter to you even then. That's ok. I really admire the time and effort that goes in to hand crafting something.

You can get a very nice print of a famous painting that will look almost exactly the same, but it wasn't done by hand. That's the difference. If that doesn't matter to you, there's nothing wrong with that, but please don't suggest that the guys that can appreciate the difference are wrong.

Also...even at $4000 and generally very nice, Nighthawks are not true "customs." It is not hard to spend $7k-$10k on a true custom built 1911. The odds are the maker will have 100+ hours into it.