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Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
...except for one thing, and that’s availability of ammunition. And not just any ammunition, but ammunition that’s not just a little more potent than the cases of 40 S&W cartridges that I already own and have guns for.

It was available in the past and is slowly becoming available again.

E.g.: Underwood has their 220 gr. hard cast in stock atm. Lucky Gunner currently has some S&B that has specs that exceed most .40 S&W SD rounds.

Though why you'd want 10mm SD ammo the well-exceeds most of the more effective .40 S&W rounds I don't understand.

To me the advantage of a 10mm is I can down-load it for effective two-legged-predator defense and load it up hotter for four-legged threats.

But, availability aside: 10mm was and remains expensive to shoot. This is why, rather than continue to burn through expensive ammo to iron-out my Kimber's FTF problem I finally just gave it to a 1911 guy and said "Here. Here's what it's doing. Fix it."




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 21511 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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quote:
Originally posted by 92fstech:
I hope this isn't the case with the 10mm, if they ever release it, as I want just a basic compact model P320, maybe with night sights (I do like the prominent green front dot that they put on their "x-ray" sights). It'll be a woods gun, so size and weight are key, and I don't want a bunch of extra stuff hanging off of it.

I'm pessimistic about this. I bet if/when Sig releases a P320 in 10mm, it'll be marketed as a boutique gun. After all, if you can afford 10mm ammo, you should be able to pay a premium for 10mm Sig, right?

If you want a relatively base/no-frills model - and I too fall into that camp, I think Sig's response will be to tell us to build what we want through their custom shop, then you'll end up w/ a base model that costs nearly as much as one of the premium line models.
 
Posts: 2348 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
Picture of 92fstech
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^ Not to be a pessimist, but based on what I've seen from Sig in the last few years I agree 100%. I miss the days when proven reliability sold guns, not fancy finishes and Chinese electronics. Hopefully I'm pleasantly surprised, and Sig proves us both wrong.
 
Posts: 5033 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 92fstech:
Hopefully I'm pleasantly surprised, and Sig proves us both wrong.


Indeed.

I would want a hiking gun: no suppressor threaded barrel or high sights, no optics, no tungsten-infused grip, no mag funnel, no extended ducktail, but with X-Ray3 sights, black grip module and slide with no ridiculous holes to collect malfunction-causing dust, dirt, and mud. How difficult would that be?




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 44492 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My other Sig
is a Steyr.
Picture of .38supersig
posted Hide Post
But they can charge more if they call it the Grand Whizzrobe Turbo Xtreme Hydra Spectra Emperor Dragon X (with a coin and two magazines).

Thinking I'd like just a simple 10mm that fits a sweet spot between a Glock 40MOS and the model 29. The 10mm P220 isn't going anywhere.


 
Posts: 7205 | Location: Somewhere looking for ammo that nobody has at a place I haven't been to for a pistol I couldn't live without... | Registered: December 02, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
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I would point out that SIG was a decade or more late to the market with a poly-striker gun, and that market was heavily saturated when the P320 was released. It's still done pretty well.

quote:
Originally posted by 92fstech:
As such, I'm still waiting on the 10mm P320. It may never happen, but even if it does, Sig is going to be playing catch-up in an already saturated market.
 
Posts: 20490 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Now Serving 7.62
Picture of 10X-Shooter
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I have a 1006 10mama but. Guess I’ll d like to see how the 10MP shoots for shits and giggles.
 
Posts: 5660 | Location: TN | Registered: February 12, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
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I wonder how many Glock 20s are sold each year. I wonder, because I can’t see the market being that large. Right now, companies are selling every 9mm pistol they can produce. So does it make sense to chop production for a pistol that initially you’ll sell some, but not a significant number?




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



 
Posts: 35507 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
personal savior!
posted Hide Post
^^ Apparently not, if you're selling 365s and 320s out the wazoo. Funny thing about the most recent phase of panic: S&W M&Ps in 9mm were widely available and cheap locally when there was practically nothing else on the shelves or gunshow tables.
 
Posts: 25907 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
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Yup. My LGS has a huge pile of M&Ps and Shields in 9mm....just stacks of them. As well as racks of M&P 15s and Anderson ARs. The cases are completely full of them, but that's about 90% of his stock. ANything else is very limited. It's been that way for a over a year and a half, and he has sold very few.
 
Posts: 5033 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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The one gun store I visit somewhat regularly usually has a good supply of P320 and P365 pistols these days, so they’re obviously not being sold as fast as they’re produced. Most, however, are something other than the basic models; they’re one of the “special” versions.

There is such a bewildering array of options that I sometimes wonder if that’s a turn-off to someone who goes in and says,
“I’m looking at the SIG P365.”
“Yes, sir. Of the 75 different versions listed on the SIG web site and which are occasionally available if they haven’t been discontinued without their telling us, we have about 15 in stock. Various grips, slides, barrels, sights, colors, and even a couple with the shoeshine mod. Which one would you like?”
“I’d like the MI6/CIA coyote tan over flat dark earth model with the Aimpoint ACRO base.”
“Oh, we never stock that model because no one likes the ACRO. But we could special order it and we might get it. Someday.”
“Well, what about their basic model? My friend has one he bought a couple of years ago, and I really like it.”
“Oh, no, we haven’t seen one of those in six months.”
“Umm …. Let me think about that.”




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 44492 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
personal savior!
posted Hide Post
Big Grin OK, at 3 AM I'm going to wake up wondering what the "shoeshine mod" is. It would be kinda fun to wander across a place locally with a selection like that, though.
 
Posts: 25907 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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This has been in the works for a few years. Friend of mine who is a FFL and has good contacts with S&W knew about it coming late this year, but was very tight lipped when ever I asked him when. I will be getting one from him for a Christmas gift for my self!


-----------------------------
Always carry. Never tell.
 
Posts: 5769 | Location: Montana  | Registered: May 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Raised Hands Surround Us
Three Nails To Protect Us
Picture of Black92LX
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I have known for a little over a month since I opened the promotional M&P 10mm pistol stand.
No pistols have arrived yet.

The M&P is a very lack luster pistol in my opinion.
I had an M&P 45 for a few months because it was stupid cheap and the extended mags I found for stupid cheap as well.
I shot it about 200 rounds and got rid of it don’t miss it in the slightest. I have a Shield that stays in the safe in the truck all the time so there is always a gun in there but again I only own it because it was super cheap.

M&Ps just don’t sell well. They are a reliable gun at a reasonable price point but folks just don’t go seeking them out.
Though I am a fan of 10mm so I welcome the gun. I don’t think I’ll rush out and buy a new one. When someone dumps a used one maybe.
I have LOTS of 10mm ammo, brass and bullets so I can shoot lots if I had time.
I will however buy a 320 10mm. I sold my 220 in 10mm which was a very very stupid thing to do as I had one of the first ones to hit the market. They were announced at SHOT in January and I had one the first week of April.
I sold it to fund some other things and that was dumb.
A 320 Legion or X Series would be very nice if they offer one I will own one.


————————————————
I think that when those dark voices start calling our name in the back of our head we need to remind those voices who we belong to!
Andrew Schwab - Project 86
 
Posts: 22900 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Weren't there frame issues with the "1.0" generation of M&P guns, particularly with hotter calibers causing cracking around the trigger opening and the magazine catch? All fixed with the 2.0 generation? I've not seen much in the way of concerns over durability issues but I also haven't exactly been looking for them either.

After the second gen was released I had originally considered adding a 2.0 4" compact 9mm to my horde, but during my 'waffling cycle' (should I/shouldn't I) a customer showed pics of his relatively new 1.0 4.25" 9mm clearly showing a hairline crack forming at the trigger slot in its frame. That pretty much squashed my desire for another M&P, even if it was going to be the updated generation pistol.

10mm is a major tick up in power. I'm leery enough about M&Ps as-is; not the sort of issue to have doubts about. I like its described size and that it's supposedly got a true 4" barrel that makes it legal to dispatch game with. But these past issues over frame durability are nagging at me noggin once again.

As for M&P sales for a sample of one retailer: for our shop as well they sell rather slowly in this post-panicdemic phase, despite favorable ergonomics, a better-than-Glock trigger and a more than reasonable pricing point compared to others in its class. Because S&W was able to make M&Ps in huge numbers, we sold tons of them last year into the early months of this year, though mostly because we couldn't get many Glocks and other European alternative during that time.

However the falloff since February '21 has be pronounced. Glocks continue to be in high demand, and so has the P320. M&Ps do better than the anemic FNH 509s, but if we could get VP9s in anything close to steady numbers they'd probably lag behind HK. And Canik, since they seem to be the 'hype' pistol these days. Few really ask about the CZ P10s these days; it's all about the hammer guns with them.

The jury's still out on the PDP; its traffic too has slowed down quickly. The 2.0 M&P9 Compact in both 4" and 3.6" are the best movers outside of the decent-selling Shield+ realm, but the full-size and extended slide 2.0s more or less sit and collect dust, especially in this personal defense age of the micro-compact pistols like the P365 and Hellcat.


-MG
 
Posts: 996 | Location: The commie, rainy side of WA | Registered: April 19, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
I wonder how many Glock 20s are sold each year.

In past years prior to 2020, from the beginning of summer to the opening of fall hunting season, our G20 sales would EASILY pace our sales of G19s, if not outsell the 9mm completely, but if only Glock would make ENOUGH of them. This year's fall Glock dealer program allowed us to order 20 guns, with a max of five of any one model. So I ordered five G20 Gen4s; those sold through in less than two days. As for the rest: the five Gen5 G19s took a week to sell, as did the five G45s. The five Gen5 G17s took two weeks. We then found some unusually 'finished' G20s that had been Cerakoted by a outside customizer; those more expensive six took four days to sell through. They definitely would've gone quicker if they had been in standard Glock colors.

But that was pretty much it; aside from one G20 that Sports South managed to scrounge up for us, there were no other G20s for us to buy. We get daily requests for G20s and there's just NOTHING out there without us having to take a lot of unwanted merchandise to 'earn' the privilege of accessing those "allocated" G20s.


-MG
 
Posts: 996 | Location: The commie, rainy side of WA | Registered: April 19, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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Thanks for those insights, monoblok.




“The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
— Bertrand Russell
 
Posts: 44492 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peripheral Visionary
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That was my experience when I went shopping for a 20. It took a while to find one.




 
Posts: 10532 | Location: Texas | Registered: January 29, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by monoblok:
Weren't there frame issues with the "1.0" generation of M&P guns, particularly with hotter calibers causing cracking around the trigger opening and the magazine catch?

That sounds vaguely familiar. What I do recall is problems with locking blocks cracking and a bout of frame corrosion.

For a while I considered a S&W M&P for my first 9mm. Those problems turned me away from that idea.




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 21511 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
posted Hide Post
Why, and compared to what? The 2.0 seem like solid, accurate pistols, with good features and ergonomics, especially when compared to their prime competitor, which is Glock. The original (1.0?) had issues, but were still viable. The 2.0 redesign seems to have dealt with most, if not all, of those issues. If one think was left, it was the hinged trigger, which seems like more of an opinion issue than a real problem. Now they're even replacing that.

quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
<snip>

The M&P is a very lack luster pistol in my opinion.

<snip>


I think the 2.0 very effectively dealt with any strength issues he 1.0 had. I would now consider it a significantly stronger design than Glock.

quote:
Originally posted by monoblok:
Weren't there frame issues with the "1.0" generation of M&P guns, particularly with hotter calibers causing cracking around the trigger opening and the magazine catch? All fixed with the 2.0 generation? I've not seen much in the way of concerns over durability issues but I also haven't exactly been looking for them either.

After the second gen was released I had originally considered adding a 2.0 4" compact 9mm to my horde, but during my 'waffling cycle' (should I/shouldn't I) a customer showed pics of his relatively new 1.0 4.25" 9mm clearly showing a hairline crack forming at the trigger slot in its frame. That pretty much squashed my desire for another M&P, even if it was going to be the updated generation pistol.

10mm is a major tick up in power. I'm leery enough about M&Ps as-is; not the sort of issue to have doubts about. I like its described size and that it's supposedly got a true 4" barrel that makes it legal to dispatch game with. But these past issues over frame durability are nagging at me noggin once again.

As for M&P sales for a sample of one retailer: for our shop as well they sell rather slowly in this post-panicdemic phase, despite favorable ergonomics, a better-than-Glock trigger and a more than reasonable pricing point compared to others in its class. Because S&W was able to make M&Ps in huge numbers, we sold tons of them last year into the early months of this year, though mostly because we couldn't get many Glocks and other European alternative during that time.

However the falloff since February '21 has be pronounced. Glocks continue to be in high demand, and so has the P320. M&Ps do better than the anemic FNH 509s, but if we could get VP9s in anything close to steady numbers they'd probably lag behind HK. And Canik, since they seem to be the 'hype' pistol these days. Few really ask about the CZ P10s these days; it's all about the hammer guns with them.

The jury's still out on the PDP; its traffic too has slowed down quickly. The 2.0 M&P9 Compact in both 4" and 3.6" are the best movers outside of the decent-selling Shield+ realm, but the full-size and extended slide 2.0s more or less sit and collect dust, especially in this personal defense age of the micro-compact pistols like the P365 and Hellcat.
 
Posts: 20490 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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