I thought I'd share some photos of an old 1911 and the story behind it. My wife's great grandfather was in the US Army in the the early 1900's and served much of his time, about 16 years, in the Philippines and for a time he served under Black Jack Pershing as a Captain. I was told that his duty there was as a Magistrate in Manila. I don't know exactly what happened, but he had a bounty on he head from the locals and came back very paranoid. He brought back 2 .45 pistols with him, revolver and this early 1911. From what I can gather, some of the first 1911's were sent to the Philippines and he was issued this one, with a low 100's serial number.

My wife's father tells stories of his grandfather carrying this pistol everywhere he went almost until he died, always being cautious of being followed and never taking the same route home. Supposedly the issue papers for the pistol are somewhere in a box along with his commission papers signed by Teddy Roosevelt.

Overall the pistol is in rather decent shape and the grips appear to be original (I think it probably has one of the oldest idiot scratches too!!). My wife's father showed me this pistol about 20 years ago and I'm glad he did, because he told me he planned on sending it to have it re-finished. I politely let him know that he probably shouldn't do that because this little piece of history probably belongs in a museum.

Enough about the gun, here's what you came to see!!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Turbo216,

Nice! This in your possession now?

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Enough about the gun, here's what you came to see!!

No sir, the gun's known history is what makes it fascinating. Thanks for sharing.

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Originally posted by bald1:
Nice! This in your possession now?

It is. The pistol has been willed to my wife, but we have taken possession of it early, by order of my father-in-law, for safe keeping while he works through some medical issues.

History you can hold in your hand! Great gun and story.

That is awesome! You ought to take that gun to somebody like the Cody Firearms Museum and see what their people can tell you about it. With a serial # like that, it's possibly one of the oldest surviving examples of the type. That's an amazing piece of family history!

That is a really cool piece of history. I really hope the issue papers along with his commission papers are able to be found and maintained by your family. The stories he must have had.
It's sad that grandpa was still that concerned for his well being at that stage of his life, not too mention after being back stateside for that long..

So what color you going with for the cerakote?

Just kidding, that's awesome, for something of that age and significance I would start taking steps to preserve it even further, especially the grips and what is left of the finish. Maybe a climate controlled box after a professional cleaning to remove solvents or anything that could deteriorate it.

I would definately contact Colt and get a factory letter on that piece. What a wonderful history it has!

Very nice and apparently not repaired or upgraded after manufacture in January 1912.
Still has dimpled magazine catch lock and narrow slot grip screws that I can tell.

Early shipments were addressed to the Commanding Officer, Springfield Armory. I don't know your chances of learning more from public sources like Colt or the Springfield Research Service.
Those personal papers would be the best provenance and you should look hard for them.

WOW!!!

Mine is a 50,000 1913 serial.

Cool!

Quite a bit of history you have there.

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Originally posted by 92fstech:
That is awesome! You ought to take that gun to somebody like the Cody Firearms Museum and see what their people can tell you about it. With a serial # like that, it's possibly one of the oldest surviving examples of the type. That's an amazing piece of family history!

That idea has crossed my mind and it would be awesome to have one of the Cody museum people go over it with us. In the mean time I believe the climate controlled box that OttoSig recommended is in order. I'm fairly familiar with the 1911 as I do have several, but I'll admit that I'd be much more comfortable having it in the hands of someone professional to go through it.

The quest for the papers will be quite the undertaking when the time comes. I do believe my FIL when he says he has them, as he's certainly kept ALL of his (and his parents, and their parents) stuff over the years. The sorting project will likely be a full time job for at least a month.

C&RSenal has recently posted a video on the 1911 from it's inception. While it's a 2 hour video it's well worth the time spent watching it. One aspect of Note is that yours has the original "short" Hammer Spur. Somewhat recently after it's introduction the Springfield Armory requested that the hammer be made to have a longer spur to provide more leverage for cocking the pistol. That then lead to issues with Hammer Bite so Springfield requested that bottom rear of the hammer be radiused. After that was done they then found that the heavier hammer was causing some occasional misfires, so Springfield then requested a stronger mainspring be installed. Which probably wiped out the reduction in effort that the longer hammer spur was supposed to provide.

I found the video and bookmarked it. Thank you Scooter for that information!! I noticed that the hammer seemed a bit short, but I had no idea why.

Jim Watson also mentioned a couple of other things I was not aware of, the dimpled magazine catch and narrow slot grip screws, being unique to the early models. I'll check out the video and see what else I don't know!!

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The quest for the papers will be quite the undertaking when the time comes. I do believe my FIL when he says he has them, as he's certainly kept ALL of his (and his parents, and their parents) stuff over the years. The sorting project will likely be a full time job for at least a month.

Ask your FIL to hunt for the papers now if possible. Let him know you’re interested in learning as much about wife’s great grandfather and his service time in Manila. I’m currently sorting through Navy personnel files, pictures, and letters of my great uncle and great aunt. She was a Navy officer nurse during WWII he was on a Navy cruiser in the pacific theater from sea trials until the Japanese surrender. She was called back up for Korea so he re-enlisted and served on a destroyer throughout the Korean War. I wish I knew this stuff existed while they were alive. Try to document as much as your wife’s father can remember.

So the serial number is under 20?

With the provenance paperwork I would think this would be worth $50,000 to $100,000 or more for the right collector, no?

The serial number is three digits. It's a low 100 number. I have no clue what it's actually worth so I'd certainly like to have it appraised by an expert. It is insured, but I'd like the number to be accurate.

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Originally posted by dking271:

Ask your FIL to hunt for the papers now if possible. Let him know you’re interested in learning as much about wife’s great grandfather and his service time in Manila. I’m currently sorting through Navy personnel files, pictures, and letters of my great uncle and great aunt. She was a Navy officer nurse during WWII he was on a Navy cruiser in the pacific theater from sea trials until the Japanese surrender. She was called back up for Korea so he re-enlisted and served on a destroyer throughout the Korean War. I wish I knew this stuff existed while they were alive. Try to document as much as your wife’s father can remember.

Having my FIL assist us won't be possible right now. He had a very large stroke hours after bypass surgery, so his mobility is non-existent. We do have another family member who has documented much of my wife's family history. We have pay stubs (in gold standard) from his time in the Army as well as photos of the house (fancy hut) he lived in while he was in the Philippines and his officer saber. Finding the rest of it will be a chore though.

That same family member has also preserved an amazing collection from my wife's other grandfather who was a B-24 pilot in WW2. Many of his flights were documented with photos and we have a large album of very cool formation and escort plane pics. Some of great-grandpa's history was audio recorded in interviews of the grand parents. I'll have to listen to it again because it is very fascinating.

If the pistol has been in your family for over a century, what's the harm in revealing the serial number? No one else can possibly lay claim to the pistol, and the early vintage of it is the key to interest in it.