As gun “aficionados” I think we tend to sometimes overthink our carry choices or at least look down upon those that make “lesser” decisions when it comes to what gun a person decides to carry on daily basis. Terms like “mouse gun” as well as “ineffective” and “weak” get thrown around. Some things got me thinking…

I’ve had the ability due to my work to see all sorts of people shot, stabbed, and bludgeoned with all sorts of different things in all sorts of manners in the past fifteen plus years. I’ve seen it real time, right after, and when they’re being cut up on the medical examiner’s table later on. What I’ve learned is that thanks to Hollywood, gel tests, the internet, and books we have very unrealistic expectations of what bullets, knives, and fists do and don’t do.

I’ve seen guys take multiple 7.62x39mm rounds in the torso and walk around fairly unaffected, one-shot stops with 22 LR from a pistol at distance, a guy who shot himself in the head with a 38 Special and then was able to tell me why he did it for 20 minutes before he died, and a guy that was stabbed nine times in the back with a Ka-Bar (and I’m talking deep stab wounds) walk himself into the hospital and completely recover. I won’t bore you with more, but if I counted I’m well into the hundreds of people shot/stabbed/bludgeoned/run over and the one thing that holds true for each one is that each one is completely unique. You cannot predict what force upon the human body (or animal) will do in the real world with all the different variables that may or may not be present, you can only do your best to control the variables you can.

I’ve carried lots of different guns concealed over the years. When I was a freshly minted policeman right out of the academy I would never consider leaving the house without a Glock 22 or at least a Glock 27 and extra mag at bare minimum. Somehow that changed as time went on to a S&W 442 in a pocket or ankle rig with a speed strip or two. Priorities change, as does fashion, our bodies, and for whatever reason sometimes as we age we get lazier with what we carry or at least we reprioritize. Where we go and what we “plan” on encountering sometimes affects what we carry, but the rule of thumb is at a bare minimum you should have some type of firearm if you legally can.

I’ve seen recently the argument on here and other forums that you need enough gun to take on multiple suspects such as during a terrorist attacks. Personally, if I could, I would have a rifle or shotgun on my person at all times, but the reality is that I cannot logistically do that. Yes, I know the quips from Jeff Cooper and Clint Smith about caliber and size, but realistically most people don’t wear 5.11 pants everywhere they go and dress around the gun they carry all the time. We often find ourselves at formal functions, our kids’ games, the neighbor’s house for an evening beer, out mowing the lawn, and a myriad of other places where carrying around larger guns becomes difficult. Many people just leave the Glock 19 or (insert other pistol here) home “for just this one time” and go unstrapped.

I bring all this up because of a rookie female cop I think of as a little sister. She’s small, I mean a very tiny girl, and bought a S&W Shield as her “off-duty” gun (she carries an M&P in uniform). Not a bad choice. But she is so small (5’3” under 100 lbs…and of course stylishly dressed with tight jeans and shirt) that she can’t carry it on her person, so it lives in a purse (the Shield looks almost full size when she holds it). She recounted to me the other day about running into a store “really quick” when she was off-duty. No purse, so no gun. Of course, as luck would have it, a parole she had arrested a few weeks prior was in the store. The interaction went fine, but all the “what if’s” started to happen.

I asked this young lady why she doesn’t just buy a smaller gun she can keep on her person all the time. She told me that she had tried shooting a Ruger LCP and found it to “too hard to shoot” (recoil). I suggested a 25 ACP or 32 ACP and she groaned and started to recount the “mouse gun” stories like we have all heard in the past. I then asked, “Would you have felt better with any gun than no gun?” The response was, “Well, yeah.” There you have it.

We look down on little guns like Beretta Jetfires, Keltec P32’s and the like because there are better options. But the reality is that having an option is better than no option at all. A Baby Browning 25 ACP has proven for over a century to be extremely reliable, easy to shoot, and small enough to literally go anywhere…even on a small lady’s person. We just think less of the round it fires. Thousands upon thousands of people have died though due to that diminutive caliber, and many lives have been saved because of it. In fact, I think I may have to pick one up to let my little sister try out…

Fantastically well put.....this is so spot on.

ANY gun is usually better than NO gun when you really need one.

I have a safe full of all kinds of great stuff. Love em all .....BUT ......I find myself carrying my little BodyGuard 380CT or my 342PD Jframe most of the time because they are small and easy to carry in shorts, jeans etc.

While I think bigger is better (within reason) when it comes to caliber there's no doubt having any gun is better than no gun.

The Beretta 950 would be a better choice than the Baby Browning for your friend do to the poor safety of the Browning. That's not a pistol I'm comfortable carrying with a round in the chamber.

Well written, but considering the number of options available, I'd still draw the line at .380 ACP. If the LCP recoiled too much for her, perhaps an all stainless steel P238 might work? I just acquired one myself and was very impressed with its diminutive size and controllability.

being female I would guess that a bad guy would find her attractive as a target,
being tiny would also make her a risk target.

and if she goes out and about by her own damn self thats a bingo , waiting to happen.

Great summation KevH. I'm all for the "right size" gun for the situation as it may dictate. But how do we predict that situation right? I'm not a fan of mouse guns as a primary (although I like my Kahr CW380- I am cold on the 380 caliber). Would never consider staying on the X with one. Speaking of the X, when that terrorist situation develops, I'm ushering my loved ones or principle off of it and to the opposite compass point! Don't get me wrong, I'd still take the shot if it presents itself while egressing

For some, the perfect pistol doesn't exist and those in this catagory usually find themselves carrying multiple firearms. I myself have spent a small fortune trying to fine tune my pistol preference. Some pistols I thought would work in theory didn't flesh out under the trials of shakedown & trial use. I've jump on some pistol bandwagons due to outstanding reviews only to eventually jump off of them. At this stage of the journey, I've settled on a few that work for me. I'm still an advocate of the 357Sig round as It likes me. I like the M&P Compacts due to there outstanding Ergo's and there size that I consider them "Tweeners" = Between the size of a Glock 19 & 17. I've also found a place fo wheelguns such as the SP101 & JFrame.

We can't always predict the time and place of that fatal encounter & ALWAYS be ready for it. We can however, learn from the mistakes and experiences of others and train with a firearm that we can use proficiently and to good measure.

Btw, reading through your experiences, Thank you for being there on the front lines of negative encounter and continuing to make a difference!

For decades I have been in the any gun is better than no gun camp.

What good is a large powerful gun that you are afraid of or cant shoot adequately. Same goes for guns that are physically too big for the user (example Glock 21 for person of diminutive stature)

First rule of a potential gunfight.

Have a gun.

I,too, enjoyed the original poster's argument. Particularly the point of 'dress.' When suited-up it's not comfortable to carry a medium sized (or larger) handgun.

Like some others, I was surprised by a gang of AK-47 bank robbers when needing some extra cash for the day's lunch. Carrying a Sig-Sauer P239 (.40 S&W), I felt able to confront them. Luckily, the silent alarm produced an over-announced response.

So the point, here, is that having enough gun is relative. Pushing further, it means more to be competent with what you carry, and your own skills. Passing that bank branch still evokes a swipe of the brow with a heavy exhale.

One limiting factor is what the agency will approve as an off duty caliber. I think ours stops at .380.

quote:

Originally posted by blakcro2:


Like some others, I was surprised by a gang of AK-47 bank robbers when needing some extra cash for the day's lunch. Carrying a Sig-Sauer P239 (.40 S&W), I felt able to confront them. Luckily, the silent alarm produced an over-announced response.
.

I think I missed that one...

What an excellent thread. I was just at the range practicing or weighing out options, based on a similar theory.

For me and what I have readily available the Shield 9mm is the smallest option I have. I'm slower with it, but my hits are very good out to 25 yards and with MagGuts springs and such I could easily have 30 rounds on hand without much problem. I think your on to something here. Especially if we shake out our options and see if our performance with the guns in drills, scenarios are sustainable.



Great stuff man. Bravo.

One has to "want" to carry the gun.

My wife is about the same size as the female officer that the OP described in his post. Over the past 30 years she has carried on-person, many different guns. Her EDC gun since 2005 has been a Glock 26 carried in an IWB FIST ultra-thin kydex holster with a spare mag in a Comp Tac mag pouch.

She carries this gun, every day.

The difference, is that she made the decision to be armed at all times 30 years ago, and has put that first, so when she buys clothes, etc... it is with concealed carry in mind - always.

I too worked with a small petite female partner for a time in a Pro Act (plain clothes anti-crime unit). She carried a P7M8 in an Alessi belt scabbard concealed on her person.

It is a matter of just doing it.

Consider a North American Arms revolver in 22 Magnum (or 17HMR) with a folding holster grip if it is legal in your state/municipality.

At least concealability will not be the issue.

I've been searching for a suitable shoulder holster for my PPK. Not that I'd carry it as a primary, but because it may at some point be the only choice. Too bad the Galco Executive was so far out of my affordability range.

Chongosuerte: The comparison was to the petite female officer meeting up with a parolee, w/o a weapon.

Fortunate for her, the situation did not corrode.

I too carry a S&W 638, or a Ruger LCP quite often, especially in the warmer months of the year. That same LCP sees a lot of time in my robe and pajama's when home year round. I also have been known to carry both at the same time, or as a BUG to larger weapons in the cooler months.

If I were hanging off a cliff face, I'd much rather have some grip than no grip at all. same goes for guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse:
...I also have been known to carry both at the same time...

Balances out:

If anyone hasn't seen this video, it's a good starting point for women. It's not brand new, but still very relevant, and the young woman in the video says she is 5'4" and 120 pounds. She looks very petite to me, although slightly larger than the OP's 'little sister':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogGBPVk5GQk&t=8s

There was a time not too long ago when I wouldn't have thought about leaving with less than a Glock 19, a spare mag and a BUG. Times change though.

Now I carry more appropriate to my dress and while I can often still carry the G19 I have purchased a few other guns to ensure I am always carrying something. Even if it is just my little NAA .22 Mag. Better a mouse gun in the pocket than a fullsize in the car.