quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
The Beretta 92 series pistols have always been just kinda "meh" to me.
I shot a lot with them in the Marines, on the Police Dept, and a few other places.

I was never a fan of the trigger on them, but can still hit pretty accurately with one.

They tossed a Red Dot mount on them now because, well... Why not?
Everyone else is doing it, so why not Beretta?
And if they didn't, somewhere soon down the line, customers would ask "hey, why don't you have a mount for a Red Dot yet? Everyone else does!"

At the end of the day, it makes the pistol slightly more "functional" in certain situations.

bone stock 92's or M9's are duty guns. You can't judge a platform by the versions designed for reliability over all else.

They are very accurate and there are several ways to improve on them that are tried and true. I built out two identically spec'ed pistols using LTT frames, Inox Vertec slides and Inox barrels (think M9A3 but with full size frames over the Vertec frame of the A3). Thin grips, LTT trigger job in a bag kits and I spent an hour doing action tunes on each. Both put near identical measurements on the trigger gauge; 3.9# DA and 1.8# SA using 11lb hammer springs. For a duty version, a 14lb hammer spring would be preferred which would put the figures about 1/3-1/2 again as much.

Interestingly, my S&W Model 66-3 3" with trigger job and rounded over trigger face pulls right around 3.9# DA and the Beretta's I built are every bit as smooth but with 4x the ammo capacity.

The upper grip relief of the M9A1, beveled magwell and beveled trigger guards of the LTT frames plus thin grips and a short reset trigger bar of the LTT TJIAB really transform the gun.

In the end, whatever gun you point naturally and is 100% reliable and can put rounds in the 10-x is best. I shoot my CZ's better than my Beretta's or Sig's but I that doesn't make me love them any less.

Picking up a bone stock 92FS or M9...yeah, it's all potential (and easily achieved).

For those of you that don't appreciate the red dot. It's a miracle for us 50 something guys that can't see the front sight.

quote:

Originally posted by 10round:
For those of you that don't appreciate the red dot. It's a miracle for us 50 something guys that can't see the front sight.

Amen, 10round.

Gross.

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CPD SIG:


bone stock 92's or M9's are duty guns. You can't judge a platform by the versions designed for reliability over all else...



Picking up a bone stock 92FS or M9...yeah, it's all potential (and easily achieved).

Oh, I've shot a Langdon, and I'll admit, it's a really nice shooter. And I can put enough rounds into the 10-ring with a stock M9 / 92FS.

But you can't compare the two.

It's like comparing the apple on the ground that's all brown and squishy with wasps chewing on it to the apple on the top of the tree...
Yeah, they're apples, but which one do you want to eat?


Me, personally; Beretta M9's / 92 series, even the Langdons- Meh... I know how to use one effectively and accurately, but it's not going to be in my first 5 choices of handguns I want to carry. That's just me.

The red-dot ready, I get that.
Damn near every other gun company has a red-dot ready package for their handguns, Beretta doesn't want to be the last to the party. Or at least be at the party way before Lorcin or Hi-Point show up.

It's just like the Picatinny Rails. Like them or not, they are functional and practical, and in the early days, a lot of people didn't want that ugly crap hanging off their gun. But now? There isn't a (modern) tactical handgun without one.

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
The benefit of the factory approach over LTT's is that it doesn't require re-certification for LE or MIL use for drop-safety purposes because they didn't touch things in the chain.

Modifying the firing pin safety plunger seems like it would fit the definition of altering something in the drop safe train, no?

quote:

Originally posted by car541:

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
The benefit of the factory approach over LTT's is that it doesn't require re-certification for LE or MIL use for drop-safety purposes because they didn't touch things in the chain.

Modifying the firing pin safety plunger seems like it would fit the definition of altering something in the drop safe train, no?

Yes, possibly, but is your statement implying the M9A4 has a different plunger? Based on pics and having pulled multiple slides apart, I see zero reason the M9A4 touched that part.

I took PGT's advice a few years ago and put together my own clone (as close as I could come) of one of his guns. I am thrilled with how my pistol turned out.

I had not given the 92 series much thought up until that point. Now, it is one of my preferred carry guns.

That being said I still don't see it with a red dot on it. I can see, how for a guy like me, how that red dot might be used in place of suppressor height sights when shooting with a can.

concur with dsgrouse. I'll borrow an M9A4 with optic from my friend who was responsible for it at Beretta and see if I like it (he's got a T&E sample). But, not sure the platform needs a RDS. Maybe an Acro P2 for running suppressed makes sense.

quote:

Originally posted by DSgrouse:
That being said I still don't see it with a red dot on it.

Yes, how many of we handgun aficianados own one type of pistol only? If you have Berettas, you will likely own SIGs or Walthers, Glocks, CZs, etc.

Put your battery-operated tumor on a Glock or a SIG or the like. Don't do that to a Beretta 92. If you have to ask why, it would be pointless to try to explain it.

Police and military, security forces and such- sure, the Beretta may be what you are issued and therefore you have no choice in the matter. Well, my condolences. Otherwise, stop painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Yes, how many of we handgun aficianados own one type of pistol only? If you have Berettas, you will likely own SIGs or Walthers, Glocks, CZs, etc.

Put your battery-operated tumor on a Glock or a SIG or the like. Don't do that to a Beretta 92. If you have to ask why, it would be pointless to try to explain it.

Police and military, security forces and such- sure, the Beretta may be what you are issued and therefore you have no choice in the matter. Well, my condolences. Otherwise, stop painting a moustache on the Mona Lisa.

Oh, I get it. I have a 365xl with a red dot, and a bnt mkII with a dot. I'll be damned if I am going to red dot up one of my beretta's, Classic sigs, or HK's.

Not all of them are Ferarri's some are simple ford's and chevy's of the gun world. None of them deserve such treatment.

I had a P365XL with both the RomeoZero and Holosun options. Junk. Now, my friend's P320 X5 with RomeoMax....that was a joy to shoot but it's a race gun, not a CCP.

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
RomeoZero and Holosun options.

Made in China. I say 'no' to red dot sights on pistols, and I say 'double no' to such items made in the magical land of communism.

Yep, sadly, that's what works on that gun. Which is why I no longer own it. They were both terrible for different reasons.

Put me in the camp of no RDS on the Beretta, ever. My reason has nothing to do with function but purely look. The M9's curved top slide does not blend well at all with anything on it, except the iron sights. Same with the P210. These pistols with RDS on top just look hideous to me.

Struggling for the right way to say it: it's like dressing a youthful Claudia Cardinale into Dick Butkus' Chicago Bears uniform, and putting her onto the field.

RDS on my G17, or a P320, no problem.

quote:

or those of you that don't appreciate the red dot. It's a miracle for us 50 something guys that can't see the front sight.

Amen brother!

You gents that are bemoaning a RDS on a Beretta, I get it. I really do. (I own 4 of them) but once your eyes start to fade with age you'll be less concerned with looks & appreciate the ability to keep shooting accurately.

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
I had a P365XL with both the RomeoZero and Holosun options. Junk. Now, my friend's P320 X5 with RomeoMax....that was a joy to shoot but it's a race gun, not a CCP.

Shield RMSC and RMS would work for those two. I would have bought those, if I was able to find them in stock. They are made in the UK

Although I'm not much of a handgun red dot guy. I could live with the red dot mounting options, as I don't have to install one (and at least it comes with the covers). But why does it have to be BROWN? Who made that decision? That color literally looks like shit. But I guess on the upside, the ugly color makes it a little easier to tolerate them carving up the slide to mount a dot.

Sadly, the Beretta I want won't ever get produced again. A blued (not bruniton/cerakote/etc) 92SB Compact Type M. Yeah, I know it's a single-stack, and large and heavy for it's capacity...but man that's one sexy little carry gun!

Yes, they are.
Honestly a D model would be the perfect KISS carry semi-auto