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What is the breakout of LE-owned P320's vs. civilian-owned P320's

How many in each group ?
 
Posts: 434 | Registered: November 03, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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superior firepower
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What does that mean? Breakout. What are you asking?
 
Posts: 109806 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Let's say, in a work bid.
You might not want just the total cost but rather an itemized list.

So, my question is, how many :

P320's in LE ownership_____
P320's in civilian ownership_____
 
Posts: 434 | Registered: November 03, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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Are you asking for total numbers or a percentage? In either case, I don't think SIG shares those numbers and there's no way to guess.


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Posts: 17831 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I suppose either one with a preference for actual numbers.
But I'm afraid it probably is proprietary information.
 
Posts: 434 | Registered: November 03, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Oh, that breakout. Right, right.
 
Posts: 109806 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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P320's in civilian ownership: A whole bunch
P320's in LE ownership: Comparatively small


Exact figures are not going to be available. Not even ballparks. But I can attempt a very rough guesstimate:

Assumption #1: We know Sig hit 1 million P320s produced in early 2020, and Sig has continued producing P320s at full tilt since then, so the total number is probably sitting at around 1.5 to 2 million or so. Split the difference and call it 1.75 million.

Assumption #2: There's still a relatively small number of law enforcement agencies that have adopted the P320, so that would likely only account for several tens of thousands. Call it 50k for simplicity (and that's likely generous).

Assumption #3: The half a million P320s ordered by all the military branches have all been produced and delivered. (We know this isn't the case, but I'll go with it for simplicity's sake.)

That yields an extremely rough guesstimate of:
Law enforcement: 50,000
Military: 500,000
Civilian: 1,200,000

quote:
Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
I don't think SIG shares those numbers and there's no way to guess.


You just aren't guessing hard enough. Big Grin
 
Posts: 33319 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am guessing 1792 in civilian hands and 424 in LE hands. Literally in their hands at that moment. Right now it is shifting. Hold on for my next guess.

Actually second guess. I think it’s a trick question. New answer ZERO. See they aren’t in the wild, they are captive. See, it’s a trick question.
 
Posts: 7540 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
P320's in civilian ownership: A whole bunch
P320's in LE ownership: Comparatively small


Exact figures are not going to be available. Not even ballparks. But I can attempt a very rough guesstimate:

Assumption #1: We know Sig hit 1 million P320s produced in early 2020, and Sig has continued producing P320s at full tilt since then, so the total number is probably sitting at around 1.5 to 2 million or so. Split the difference and call it 1.75 million.

Assumption #2: There's still a relatively small number of law enforcement agencies that have adopted the P320, so that would likely only account for several tens of thousands. Call it 50k for simplicity (and that's likely generous).

Assumption #3: The half a million P320s ordered by all the military branches have all been produced and delivered. (We know this isn't the case, but I'll go with it for simplicity's sake.)

That yields an extremely rough guesstimate of:
Law enforcement: 50,000
Military: 500,000
Civilian: 1,200,000

I question Assumption #2...I'm thinking AT LEAST double that number, if not more P320s in LE hands. It may be a relatively small number of agencies in your neck of the woods, but there's a ton of agencies in New England that carry the P320.


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Posts: 9587 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: October 29, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not that it proves anything, but in watching “police activity” videos of shootings and other encounters, Glocks are still of course most common, but I’ve seen P320s in a significant number.




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Posts: 47869 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There are 600k potential in the LEO market and I sincerely doubt that Sig has more than 10% of it. 100K of them would be 15+% of the market and I really really doubt that. But we are all guessing so pick whatever number you like.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 11229 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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For another measure, just think of all the ND lawsuits by LE officers... Wink


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If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !!
Trump 2024....Make America Great Again!
"May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20
Live Free or Die!
 
Posts: 9587 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: October 29, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by nhracecraft:
I'm thinking AT LEAST double that number, if not more P320s in LE hands.


Sure. Why not. You're guess is as good as mine.

Either way, it wouldn't change the fact that less than 10% of total P320 production is in law enforcement use.
 
Posts: 33319 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Government contracts are public.

Sig/P320 won the contract.

the Defense Department can buy up to nearly 500,000 new pistols.

Current plans call for the Army to purchase more than 280,000 handguns, according to Program Executive Office Soldier officials. The Army also plans to buy approximately 7,000 sub-compact versions of the handgun.

The other military services participating in the program may order an additional 212,000 systems above the Army quantity.
 
Posts: 4795 | Registered: February 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sig2392:
Government contracts are public.

Sig/P320 won the contract.

the Defense Department can buy up to nearly 500,000 new pistols.

Current plans call for the Army to purchase more than 280,000 handguns, according to Program Executive Office Soldier officials. The Army also plans to buy approximately 7,000 sub-compact versions of the handgun.

The other military services participating in the program may order an additional 212,000 systems above the Army quantity.

Rogue very aptly factored in the military's 500K units into his estimate.
 
Posts: 434 | Registered: November 03, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well AimSurplus is blowing out LE trade-in for $349. Comes with night sights and one mag. And I just bought one, so that's one less in LE hands and one more in civilian hands. Wink And I have to say the one I received was in excellent condition. Looked like it hadn't really been shot at all.

I suspect we may be seeing aa lot more LE trade-ins, given that there have been a number of depts. complaining about AD's.
 
Posts: 544 | Location: Gunnison, CO | Registered: March 25, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by nhracecraft:
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
P320's in civilian ownership: A whole bunch
P320's in LE ownership: Comparatively small


Exact figures are not going to be available. Not even ballparks. But I can attempt a very rough guesstimate:

Assumption #1: We know Sig hit 1 million P320s produced in early 2020, and Sig has continued producing P320s at full tilt since then, so the total number is probably sitting at around 1.5 to 2 million or so. Split the difference and call it 1.75 million.

Assumption #2: There's still a relatively small number of law enforcement agencies that have adopted the P320, so that would likely only account for several tens of thousands. Call it 50k for simplicity (and that's likely generous).

Assumption #3: The half a million P320s ordered by all the military branches have all been produced and delivered. (We know this isn't the case, but I'll go with it for simplicity's sake.)

That yields an extremely rough guesstimate of:
Law enforcement: 50,000
Military: 500,000
Civilian: 1,200,000

I question Assumption #2...I'm thinking AT LEAST double that number, if not more P320s in LE hands. It may be a relatively small number of agencies in your neck of the woods, but there's a ton of agencies in New England that carry the P320.


I see quite a few in the hands of west coast cops as well. Doesn’t Texas DPS issue them? There would be quite a few P320’s right there. I know of several agencies where they are on the approved list.

I know this is a different Sig platform and I don’t mean to thread drift but, I see a number of NE agencies buying or authorizing the Sig M400 rifle. NSP just bought at least 400 of them. My department has a T&E day w/ Sig to see of a possible trade in of our Colt’s.
 
Posts: 4168 | Registered: January 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think some of your assumptions are off. Look at the Wikipedia page for the P320. It's interesting. It has at least a partial list of institutional users, including military and police organizations.

A few militaries have adopted it, starting with the US, and including Canada, Australia and some smaller ones. It seems to be doing well in the international police market, including some national police forces. Domestically several major federal, state, and municipal police forces have adopted it. These include ICE, Dallas PD, Chicago PD, Tampa PD, Milwaukee PD, State Police in NV, DE, HI, OK, and VA. Add a good number of county Sheriff's departments. This adds up to a lot of guns. I'd say the institutional market is probably pushing million unit if it hasn't cracked it already.

quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
P320's in civilian ownership: A whole bunch
P320's in LE ownership: Comparatively small


Exact figures are not going to be available. Not even ballparks. But I can attempt a very rough guesstimate:

Assumption #1: We know Sig hit 1 million P320s produced in early 2020, and Sig has continued producing P320s at full tilt since then, so the total number is probably sitting at around 1.5 to 2 million or so. Split the difference and call it 1.75 million.

Assumption #2: There's still a relatively small number of law enforcement agencies that have adopted the P320, so that would likely only account for several tens of thousands. Call it 50k for simplicity (and that's likely generous).

Assumption #3: The half a million P320s ordered by all the military branches have all been produced and delivered. (We know this isn't the case, but I'll go with it for simplicity's sake.)

That yields an extremely rough guesstimate of:
Law enforcement: 50,000
Military: 500,000
Civilian: 1,200,000

quote:
Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
I don't think SIG shares those numbers and there's no way to guess.


You just aren't guessing hard enough. Big Grin
 
Posts: 21240 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 357fuzz:
quote:
Originally posted by nhracecraft:
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
P320's in civilian ownership: A whole bunch
P320's in LE ownership: Comparatively small


Exact figures are not going to be available. Not even ballparks. But I can attempt a very rough guesstimate:

Assumption #1: We know Sig hit 1 million P320s produced in early 2020, and Sig has continued producing P320s at full tilt since then, so the total number is probably sitting at around 1.5 to 2 million or so. Split the difference and call it 1.75 million.

Assumption #2: There's still a relatively small number of law enforcement agencies that have adopted the P320, so that would likely only account for several tens of thousands. Call it 50k for simplicity (and that's likely generous).

Assumption #3: The half a million P320s ordered by all the military branches have all been produced and delivered. (We know this isn't the case, but I'll go with it for simplicity's sake.)

That yields an extremely rough guesstimate of:
Law enforcement: 50,000
Military: 500,000
Civilian: 1,200,000

I question Assumption #2...I'm thinking AT LEAST double that number, if not more P320s in LE hands. It may be a relatively small number of agencies in your neck of the woods, but there's a ton of agencies in New England that carry the P320.


I see quite a few in the hands of west coast cops as well. Doesn’t Texas DPS issue them? There would be quite a few P320’s right there. I know of several agencies where they are on the approved list.

I know this is a different Sig platform and I don’t mean to thread drift but, I see a number of NE agencies buying or authorizing the Sig M400 rifle. NSP just bought at least 400 of them. My department has a T&E day w/ Sig to see of a possible trade in of our Colt’s.



DPS does issue them, around 2500 pistols or so.



TXPO


Coldborecustom.com
 
Posts: 258 | Location: Texas | Registered: January 12, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
I think some of your assumptions are off. Look at the Wikipedia page for the P320. It's interesting. It has at least a partial list of institutional users, including military and police organizations.

A few militaries have adopted it, starting with the US, and including Canada, Australia and some smaller ones. It seems to be doing well in the international police market, including some national police forces. Domestically several major federal, state, and municipal police forces have adopted it. These include ICE, Dallas PD, Chicago PD, Tampa PD, Milwaukee PD, State Police in NV, DE, HI, OK, and VA. Add a good number of county Sheriff's departments. This adds up to a lot of guns. I'd say the institutional market is probably pushing million unit if it hasn't cracked it already.

You just aren't guessing hard enough. Big Grin
[/QUOTE]

Without taking a position on the numbers being estimated, it is important to recognize that there is a difference between an agency authorizing a gun and issuing a gun to the whole department. My recollection of Chicago PD, for example, is that they have a list officers can buy from.
 
Posts: 5243 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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