Or, for that matter, ANY serrations?

Ok history, chapter 1, 1911. Grabbing a slick slide to retract and lock back for loading means better grip is required. 1911 did that in a very functional way set up for the machinists to get it done easily. They don't follow the lines of the grip which would appear less compromised to function but that's the appeal of the 1911. Mans combat tool no frills.

And how often do we need to retract the slide? Well, 1911 follows the same standard as the Garand, M14 and M16 - last shot hold open. Under duress in the field you eject magazine insert the new shove the lever down, chamber a round and fire. No fuss no muss. On the last shot it HOLDS OPEN with good mags and ammo, you don't retract after that.

So, why serrations on the front? Why are we grabbing it there, and how frequently, anyway? Well - race gun. We had no front serrations on auto pistols - and the rear were minimal on many - for over 80 years, two world wars and numerous police actions (in fact, American has been at war for almost 223 years, except the Trump era. Hint.) And all that time our combat pistols didn't have front serrations. The M9 had it's forward of the safety, a bit off on that one, too. So much for style.

Other combat pistols? Browning HiPower, maybe the best of the lot, centered, compatibly angled. Luger? On the toggle, done right for a different action. Walther P38? The granddaddy to the Beretta and Smith, they squeezed them in and functional. Even the Nambu has them on the knob cocker. The Colt 1902 is about the only one with front serrations - only. Since few prefer to put their hand and wrist near the muzzle when working the action, that might be why we don't see them much.

Until recently. Now all the newest military firearms have front serrations, too. M17, Kalashnikov PL14, Steyr L9-A1, Beretta APX - and the trend on small carry guns with little to grab and stiff recoil springs. Folks aren't shy of using the rear sights to retract them against a door jamb or edge of a table, including RMR equipped. The aftermarket is even offering bumpers for them.

I get it on the smaller guns - a 3" barrel and slide in 9mm needs a higher rate spring to control the action compared to a 5", but hey, even the 5" are getting serrations in front. And that is where I think things have gone a bit too far. We didn't need them for 80 years but now all of a sudden we do? Like binoculars, we had leatherette covering on them for 80 years but now we need super serrations on them for grip? Nope, we went the other way - slick - but in rubber. Better grip.

With the availabe polymers and new age adhesives, why not just add rubber gripping surface to the slide instead of more machine time and tooling? Grip tape? Some even add a tab on strikers to grab. For a carry gun with very little time out of the holster, how hard is it really to load at the range for practice? .380s aren't hard, but I will concede small 9's can be. When I grab the slide on a 365 the thumb goes on the inside, index finger curled on the outside - and that's all that contacts the slide. The tips of the fingers dont really engage the front serrations. They are significantly less used, and don't forget, we shoot to slide lock and then reload - like the AR15, jacking with that charging handle is doing it wrong. It's preparatory to having it loaded where it operates to prevent you needing to.

I propose front serrations are the gun industry's hood ports on a Buick - useless ornamentation. Yet, there they are because buyers equate them with "high performance" or "mines' better than yours." If SIG offered a no front serrations slide for the 365 I'd be tempted. The weight is neglible and it would be one less area on the gun grinding off Kydex from the inside of the holster. It's an unecessary machine operation and it goes to show that the subject matter experts at the .Gov level aren't so sharp as we think. The cost benefit ratio isnt really there to justify it.

That is a LOT of text to preface a question with.

Front cocking serrations are totally unnecessary on a 1911

I just place my weak hand thumb in the trigger guard and my first finger on the recoil spring plug and pinch the two together.

I have been doing it that ways since long before machinists decided to charge me money for adding front serrations

That's why I won't buy a new Glock. I hate front serrations. And if you own a Glock and feel the need to check to see if it has a round chambered, why not use the loaded chamber indicator. All of my 1911's have that little peep hole in case I need to check the chamber. And why would I put my hand anywhere near the muzzle end of a gun unless the slide is racked?

I kinda like and use FCS.

Now, if you wanna talk about unnecessary, let's talk about square/hooked trigger guards.

Useful but not absolutely necessary. I’ve never understood the hatred.

I cut front serrations on all my revolvers. , and both of my shotguns.

For uniformity and manual of arms.


(edited, it's the pistol thread)

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
I cut front serrations on all my revolvers. , and both of my shotguns.

For uniformity and manual of arms.


(edited, it's the pistol thread)

That's a lot of text to rationalize one's attitude to something presence of which shouldn't matter for those who don't use them, and matters for those who do.

Front slide serrations started for competitors eons ago...when they started using optics. Optics prevented access to the rear serrations for press checking.

Several points:

1) Use of front serrations can be dangerous. It's easy to overhang the front of the slide, especially when in a hurry. Easy way to lose a finger if trigger is pressed. IMHO, digits don't belong in front of muzzles in loaded guns.

2) For the above reason, USE of the front serrations for any purpose is banned in all of our NRA courses.

3) Theoretical issue, right? NO. Our weekly SD shooting group consists of mainly experienced shooters. I was behind a guy on the line and he had a malfunction. He rushed to clear it. Used overhand on front serrations and pulled the trigger. Seared the finger, but didn't destroy it.

The aforementioned guy was an experienced shooter and a careful individual. Not a yahoo. Was also on the Police Review Board. Was so embarrassed that he never returned to the group after the accident.

Obviously, if a pistol has front serrations, there is no obligation to use them. If somebody likes them, that's their own business. I personally don't like the aesthetics or the safety issue.

FWIW, given the length of your post, I didn't bother reading all of it. A little tedious.

Colt back in 1902….



That said, I’m not a fan. But… but… JMB!!!

Bill R

quote:

(in fact, American has been at war for almost 223 years, except the Trump era. Hint.)

quote:

It's an unecessary machine operation and it goes to show that the subject matter experts at the .Gov level aren't so sharp as we think.

Why do you keep tossing politics into otherwise valid posts?

quote:

With the available polymers and new age adhesives, why not just add rubber gripping surface to the slide instead of more machine time and tooling?

You've clearly never seen how modern firearms are produced. Otherwise you'd know that not only is there no significant additional machine time, zero retooling time, but to add all the other stuff is less efficient and would actually take longer.

quote:

FWIW, given the length of your post, I didn't bother reading all of it. A little tedious.

No real need - 95% pontificating, as usual.

Well, regarding the interjecting of political commentary into an apolitical thread-

What makes a thread political or apolitical? The first post in the thread. This post establishes the subject matter. If the OP wishes to inject politics into a thread about slide serrations, it's his choice entirely; though, I will say that the way it was done in this instance is awkward, to say the least.

Tirod is in love with language. I understand this. I'm the same way.

Also, he loves to hear himself talk, feels he has much to say, and feels he brings wise perspective to wherever he posts. He feels as if he's impressing us, and if not that, then he certainly impresses himself.

Tirod is not talking to us; he is talking at us, as if we- not the forum, mind you- we are a microphone.

He doesn't respond directly to other members, calls no one by name, exhibits no warmth, no interest in the opinions and thoughts of others.

If I didn't know better, I might be inclined to believe we're being trolled.

Let us have an experiment.

Tirod, I want you to respond directly to me and my comments in this post. I want you to acknowledge what I've said and I want you to address me by my forum name- parabellum- or the nickname everyone uses- Para. You don't have to agree with anything I've said, but I want to hear you speak to us, not at us.

I want you to exhibit a bit of humanity.

If your pride dictates that you are incapable of such, then it bodes poorly for you in this forum. I can see where this is going with the members. If you are going to continue with this pattern of behavior, you will serve as nothing but a source of frustration for the members (that's the "trolling" stuff, you see) and then I will be left with no choice but to remove you from this forum.

If you like this forum and if you really want to be a member, then be a member. Be human, and talk to us. Allow your imperfections to be seen.

What say you?

I heard front slide serrations are a conspiracy by holster manufacturers to get gun owners to wear out and replace holsters more frequently.

I’m gonna put this here dog training suit on so when everybody starts throwing stuff it’ll hurt less ………..soooooo….

Not a huge fan of front serrations, can take or leave but I thought the “ears” on the VP9 were a pretty good idea and I liked them. DON’T JUDGE ME YOUR NOT MY SUPERVISOR!!!

All that said I don’t have a ton of optics on handguns experience and I don’t do a “tactical press check” every 2 minutes. I can see some utility for some optics, at least in my minds eye.

Take care, shoot safe.
Chris

In answer to the question posted: that's up to the individual to decide. Just like the question "What is the coolest animal" there is no right wrong answer, except to that specific question the only correct answer is: the wolverine.

If you don't like any feature on a gun you are thinking of buying, don't buy it. If you don't think the feature is necessary on your gun, don't buy it. There are many other choices out there.

The End.

Some people wanted them. They had them put on custom guns. It became a feature. For the gun manufacturers, putting them in means a few more seconds for the slide to be in the CNC machining cell, and maybe a slightly reduced cycle between cutter head sharpening/replacement. This is probably a few cents per gun cost increase. So the put them on. They probable figure some buyers will like then and buy their gun where they wouldn't be a gun if they weren't there, and no one will not by the gun because of their presence.

Ascetics aside, going purely function, I'd take front serrations (or something) over rear on any full sized pistol. I only seem to grab the sub compacts from the rear of the slide.

I don't think I've ever done a "press check" in my life. I think the idea that it's the sole purpose for them is just something people who don't like them heard and keep repeating.

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:


So, why serrations on the front? Why are we grabbing it there, and how frequently, anyway? Well - race gun. We had no front serrations on auto pistols - and the rear were minimal on many - for over 80 years, two world wars and numerous police actions (in fact, American has been at war for almost 223 years, except the Trump era. Hint.) And all that time our combat pistols didn't have front serrations. The M9 had it's forward of the safety, a bit off on that one, too. So much for style.

Really? I seem to recall combat action in Afghanistan and Syria (just two off the top of my head) during the Trump admin.

Regarding the original question, I don't find them necessary but they don't hurt anything so eh.

I am a late bloomer to the optics crowd. Even have one on a carry gun now. They help with an optics equipped gun. I prefer using the rear ones for the aforementioned finger severing stories quoted above.

As for adhesives and such, I tried Talon grips and found them lacking to my particular digits. I can see the appeal but I might never buy another set.

Tirod, you're welcome to your soliloquies, and not everyone is warm and fuzzy- you are who you are. But, I'll tell you one thing which you won't do in this forum, and that is to ghost your host.

You have to understand- if I address a member, I have my reasons, and I expect an answer, and if a member is not willing to speak to me, then, they are not welcome in this forum. In no way is this unreasonable. You don't go to a party at a man's house and ignore him if he speaks to you.

What's it going to be?