quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
But power and other ballistics factors aren’t the only thing to consider in a self-defense weapon. We need to be not only confident of the cartridge’s effectiveness, but also in our ability to carry the gun when we should and to be able to shoot it fast and accurately if required. That’s why many people carry smaller guns chambered for less powerful cartridges—it’s far better to do that than carry nothing at all.

Try carrying the gun and shooting the cartridge that appeals to you. But don’t become so infatuated with any gun and cartridge that we become blind to their faults and limitations, and to one’s own abilities.

That’s what I say.

I think that is a great point. I carried a .45 for years (and still do at work). I bought a New Agent for the purpose of carrying off duty. Carried it or years, but it was heavy at times. I found that depending on how I was carrying it, it was uncomfortable. I frequently carry in a jacket pocket (about 9 months of the year) and the Colt would weigh down one side of my jacket (irritated the shit out of me). As a result, sometimes I wouldn't carry (shitty reason for not carrying but there it is). I switched to a 938 due to size and weight and recently got a 365. Now I always have a handgun on me. I still believe in the .45 but like stated, having something is better than nothing. I also owned and shot a 10MM before it was cool (Stainless Colt Delta Elite) and back when it was loaded hot. Very cool handgun wish I still hand it.

I carry a Sig P220/10 Legion. It is big and heavy, but so am I.

For years, I carried a Sig P226/357 Stainless. It held more rounds, but was a much thicker gun. I prefer the relative slimness of the P220. It conceals a little better for me.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:
Unless you get underwood or Lehigh ect. Most off the shelf ammo is loaded to .40 specs which is straight up bait and switch.. but with most carry ammo it’s just big soft shooting .40. I keep my G20 in my night stand with that ammo, but I wouldn’t carry it. I keep the full power stuff for the woods.
Which is something you might want to consider, do you want to be launching full power 10mm in public if something happens? If it over penetrates or you miss it’s your ass.
If you want a .40, get a .40 they are dirt cheap these days

I would carry urban ammo for the street, not hunting ammo. So your point of overpenetration may lack merit for typical 10mm defense ammo, which when driven harder, seem to penetrate less not more, further limiting chances for overpenetration. Well based on gel teting I've seen. Are there any cases of overpenetration in righteous SD or police shooting cases ? I've never heard of any cases like that, but are there any ?

My other point was that if you’re going to carry the low power SD ammo, you may as well carry a .40 because that’s pretty much what it is. If you just want to have one gun that can fill multiple roles I get it. But my point is for urban carry there are better options that aren’t nearly as large. I have a G20, I love that gun. But I couldn’t imagine carrying it everywhere. and full power 10mm is a hell of a lot more penetration than 9, .40, or .45. It’s harder to shoot well at speed and you’ll be much more likely to hit an innocent bystander. I’m just saying its a risk you’re taking unless you carry the powder puff loads which are just expensive .40

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:
Unless you get underwood or Lehigh ect. Most off the shelf ammo is loaded to .40 specs which is straight up bait and switch.. but with most carry ammo it’s just big soft shooting .40. I keep my G20 in my night stand with that ammo, but I wouldn’t carry it. I keep the full power stuff for the woods.
Which is something you might want to consider, do you want to be launching full power 10mm in public if something happens? If it over penetrates or you miss it’s your ass.
If you want a .40, get a .40 they are dirt cheap these days

I would carry urban ammo for the street, not hunting ammo. So your point of overpenetration may lack merit for typical 10mm defense ammo, which when driven harder, seem to penetrate less not more, further limiting chances for overpenetration. Well based on gel teting I've seen. Are there any cases of overpenetration in righteous SD or police shooting cases ? I've never heard of any cases like that, but are there any ?

My other point was that if you’re going to carry the low power SD ammo, you may as well carry a .40 because that’s pretty much what it is. If you just want to have one gun that can fill multiple roles I get it. But my point is for urban carry there are better options that aren’t nearly as large. I have a G20, I love that gun. But I couldn’t imagine carrying it everywhere. and full power 10mm is a hell of a lot more penetration than 9, .40, or .45. It’s harder to shoot well at speed and you’ll be much more likely to hit an innocent bystander. I’m just saying its a risk you’re taking unless you carry the powder puff loads which are just expensive .40

The 10 does not penetrate deeper than 9, 40, or 45, using street ammo. How did you come to that conclusion ? Hardcast and ball, sure, but not street HP, not even close.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:
Unless you get underwood or Lehigh ect. Most off the shelf ammo is loaded to .40 specs which is straight up bait and switch.. but with most carry ammo it’s just big soft shooting .40. I keep my G20 in my night stand with that ammo, but I wouldn’t carry it. I keep the full power stuff for the woods.
Which is something you might want to consider, do you want to be launching full power 10mm in public if something happens? If it over penetrates or you miss it’s your ass.
If you want a .40, get a .40 they are dirt cheap these days

I would carry urban ammo for the street, not hunting ammo. So your point of overpenetration may lack merit for typical 10mm defense ammo, which when driven harder, seem to penetrate less not more, further limiting chances for overpenetration. Well based on gel teting I've seen. Are there any cases of overpenetration in righteous SD or police shooting cases ? I've never heard of any cases like that, but are there any ?

My other point was that if you’re going to carry the low power SD ammo, you may as well carry a .40 because that’s pretty much what it is. If you just want to have one gun that can fill multiple roles I get it. But my point is for urban carry there are better options that aren’t nearly as large. I have a G20, I love that gun. But I couldn’t imagine carrying it everywhere. and full power 10mm is a hell of a lot more penetration than 9, .40, or .45. It’s harder to shoot well at speed and you’ll be much more likely to hit an innocent bystander. I’m just saying its a risk you’re taking unless you carry the powder puff loads which are just expensive .40

The 10 does not penetrate deeper than 9, 40, or 45, using street ammo. How did you come to that conclusion ? Hardcast and ball, sure, but not street HP, not even close.

I never said that it did.
I said with full power loads.
I also said that with the “street HP” you may as well carry a regular .40 because that’s all it is and the gun won’t be as damn big.

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:
Unless you get underwood or Lehigh ect. Most off the shelf ammo is loaded to .40 specs which is straight up bait and switch.. but with most carry ammo it’s just big soft shooting .40. I keep my G20 in my night stand with that ammo, but I wouldn’t carry it. I keep the full power stuff for the woods.
Which is something you might want to consider, do you want to be launching full power 10mm in public if something happens? If it over penetrates or you miss it’s your ass.
If you want a .40, get a .40 they are dirt cheap these days

I would carry urban ammo for the street, not hunting ammo. So your point of overpenetration may lack merit for typical 10mm defense ammo, which when driven harder, seem to penetrate less not more, further limiting chances for overpenetration. Well based on gel teting I've seen. Are there any cases of overpenetration in righteous SD or police shooting cases ? I've never heard of any cases like that, but are there any ?

My other point was that if you’re going to carry the low power SD ammo, you may as well carry a .40 because that’s pretty much what it is. If you just want to have one gun that can fill multiple roles I get it. But my point is for urban carry there are better options that aren’t nearly as large. I have a G20, I love that gun. But I couldn’t imagine carrying it everywhere. and full power 10mm is a hell of a lot more penetration than 9, .40, or .45. It’s harder to shoot well at speed and you’ll be much more likely to hit an innocent bystander. I’m just saying its a risk you’re taking unless you carry the powder puff loads which are just expensive .40

The 10 does not penetrate deeper than 9, 40, or 45, using street ammo. How did you come to that conclusion ? Hardcast and ball, sure, but not street HP, not even close.

I never said that it did.
I said with full power loads.
I also said that with the “street HP” you may as well carry a regular .40 because that’s all it is and the gun won’t be as damn big.

And THAT is the bottom line. I have owned a few 10mm pistols, and the fact is that unless you are buying boutique ammunition, they are equal to or little more than an expensive, oversized .40 S&W.

Not to say you won't buy botique ammo... Just that hardly anyone buys enough to make it worthwhile.

To each his/her own.