One of the most rewarding yet one of the most annoying range trips ever. Worked last night and slept later into the afternoon than I wanted to. MatSu Sportsman's Club closes at 5:00 and I got there just before 4:00. Realized that my time would be limited so only took 2 guns, my two newest ones that I haven't shot yet my Sig 226 SAO Legion and my Colt Defender.

First up was the Sig. To say I'm happier than Elton John with a mouth full of peanut butter about this gun would be an understatement. The trigger pull is light and crisp and I shot very tight groups with it. Point of impact was a little low, but that could be the Federal American Eagle 115gr. ammo that I was using. The front sight really pops but the rear sight seems dim in comparison. This gun is in contention to become my favorite handgun ever. It's just that much fun to shoot and shooting tight little groups makes it even more fun.



Second up was the Colt Defender. This was a gun that I bought with some doubts. I had a 3" Kimber 1911 before that I liked, but was not reliable. I went looking for a Springfield EMP and my pusher at the local shop talked me into the Colt. According to him, they've had problems with the EMP's, especially the ejectors and they do have proprietary parts. They have not seen any issues with the Colt Defenders.

It functioned flawlessly with Winchester white box 230gr. but point of impact was low. It functioned flawlessly with Federal 230 Hydrashocks which has been my standard carry load with .45 ACP. Point of impact with the Hydrashocks was dead on. Recoil seem much tamer than my M&P Shield in .45. It's 1911 goodness in a smaller package. I'll need to get some additional rounds downrange before I trust it for carry. But I'm impressed enough that I took advantage of Galco's sale this weekend and ordered up a holster for it.



Now for the two old farts.

I hadn't even finished shooting the first magazine out of my Sig when old fart no 1, a range officer mad his presence known. He walked up behind me while I was shooting and then around me on my left side. Next thing I know he's literally in my face, facing me and I've still got a loaded gun in my hands. I was like Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

An an extremely loud voice I asked, "Can I help you?!"

He responded with, "I just really appreciate a tight group."

"That's nice, you're standing in front of me and I have a loaded gun you need to back off and get behind me!"

Well, he did move a little but was still standing right next to me on my left side, I dropped the mag, cleared the live round out of the chamber and set the gun down on the bench. Old fart no. 1 then starts babbling about a combat shooting instructor at the club that he's currently working with then states,

"Your group is too small, you're not shooting fast enough!"

I tried to explain that it was a new gun, first time shooting it and I was trying to evaluate it for function and accuracy. He responded,

"It's a Sig it will work fine and you don't need to worry about accuracy with it, worry about your shooting."

Ok, great advice grandpa, I file that with the Charmin in the men's room. Still trying to be somewhat nice, I politely asked if we could talk guns and training later as there was limited time to get my shooting in. Well, that sent him away for a little bit...

Then I turn around to pick up my brass and it's gone! Old fart no. 2, another range officer is down at the other end with his little wire basket on a stick walking behind the lanes picking up everyone's brass and then dropping it in his own tackle box behind the line. So I approached him and asked if he had picked up my brass and explained that I reloaded and tried to keep my brass.

Somewat confused, he went back to his tackle box, opened it up and said, "Take what you want." I tried to explain that I was only interested in my own brass which I thought he had picked up and was in his rolling wire basket. So he emptied that out and sure enough, my brass was in it. He made a point of asking what brass I was using and I told him Federal 9mm.

Now every single time he rolls his basket behind the line he drops the entire contents out next to my range bag. So now I have to sort through everyone's brass to find my own. I'm somewhat annoyed, but at least he means well.

Now old fart no. 1 makes his presence known again. Walks up in front of me again as I'm on the line and inserting a magazine into my Sig.

"How much longer are you going to shoot?"

I told him that I was planning on shooting for another half an hour.

"But we close at 5:00!"

"Yes, and it's now 4:30, what's the issue?"

"Well I have to clean up and close the range!"

"And you can do that at 5:00."

"No, that's not how it works, we close at 5:00 meaning the doors are locked and no one's inside!"

"So are you refunding my range fee for the day since I'm not being allowed to use it?"

"No, we don't do that."

Ok, fine whatever, I'm not going to continue arguing with grandpa when I have a loaded gun in my hand. Pack up everything and head out for the front room. Grandpa follows me out.

"You're going to come back aren't you?"

Very snarkily I replied, "Yes, I'll be back on Sunday and I'll make sure and throw some beer cans and clay pigeons out on the range as targets for you to clean up."

"Oh, ok"

I had some words with the member sitting behind the front desk about old fart no. 1. He said they've had complaints about him in the past. I said it wasn't a complaint about him being a pain in the ass, it was a report about his dangerous behavior. He asked what exactly happened and I again told him that twice old fart no. 1 had placed himself in front of me when I had a loaded weapon in hand.

"Oh, I didn't think that even he was that stupid. I'll talk with the board about it."

I have a feeling I'll be writing a letter to the board as well. The annoyance is one thing, but someone could get seriously hurt with the way he conducts himself. I could easily see an inexperienced shooter becoming distracted by him and breaking the 180 or having a negligent discharge.

That is a sweet P226 of yours.

Can't imagine what was going through the old fart's mind at the time.

I have, more than once, simply stopped shooting, and spent my range time shooting the shit with an old fart who interrupts.

We will ourselves be there one day.

But something does need to be done about someone who walks out onto a hot range. I do agree with that.

Funny (not haha) story.

My second-hand EMP has been dead-nuts reliable and shoots very well and consistently. Its my CC. Hope the Colt serves you flawlessly.

Actually, those 2 old farts were just messing with you. It’s the standard play whenever we see a young grom use something other than a Glock with a 30+ round mag. Please realize that it was a sign of affection and respect for your willingness to own such fine pistols.

During our morning shuffleboard session, we strategize as to our afternoon plan for annoying young squids. Example - If you had whipped out a suppressor, the two farts probably would have started to practice w/ their 460 mag in the next stall.

Sounds like the old farts didn’t respect your time or money, not to mention basic firearm safety. Unlike the previous replies, I can’t stand idiots like that at any age.

Obviously some people have issues with boundaries.

When I go to the range, I go to be, mostly, by myself unless I go with a friend. I don't give unsolicited advice or make comments. I might ask someone what they are shooting if it looks interesting, but that's it. Obviously, it someone is doing something unsafe, that is a whole other matter.

I treat unsolicited comments and advice like I do Telemarketers and SPAM or Fraud calls, I don't answer them or feel much compunction about being polite.

IMO, interrupting someone or giving unsolicited advice is also not polite or respectful of the other person's autonomy.

Beautiful pistols. Sorry to hear a couple people put a hitch in your day at the range. Hopefully your next trip out will be a much better one.

The POI seemed low with my Defender, at first, too. Must've been the way I was looking at the sights, because the problem has corrected itself and it now hits where I shoot.

My LGS tossed in a brand new Galco OWB holster with my Defender, but I think I'm going to end up ordering something from either R. Grizzle or Milt Sparks for it. I do not find one-hand reholstering with the Galco nearly as easy as it is with either the MS I-BAK for my P239 SAS or even the IWB Kydex holster for my PPS M2.

Btw: I've settled on Remington 185 gr. Golden Sabers for my 1911 carry rounds. They have a solid reputation and their bullet profile more closely matches that of the ball ammo for which the 1911 was originally designed.

You’re much more patient than I am. I’ve stopped putting up with anyone’s bs at the range these days. Especially that trick they play stealing your brass. I used to take a mosin with me and just only bring it out when annoying assholes like that buzz around, something loud and unpleasant to be next to usually gets you some personal space

Any one of those 3 actions would have irritated me (the safety violation by a Range Officer chief among them), but you experienced all 3 in one session.

My indoor club has a very nice lounge (both locations) and I've sat there reading various gun magazines or watching TV, or having a friendly talk with another member...and I've even had a couple nice conversations with members on the range during a slow day on the range. But, other than for a safety reason, I can't imagine a reason why anyone, let alone a R.O., would knowingly walk into a shooter's personal space and start a conversation while the shooter was holding a loaded gun and in the middle of a string of fire. I'm willing to bet the R.O. didn't intend to commit a violation of either safety or etiquette... but jimminy crickets, what a an annoyingly ignorant action to commit on a range. What concerns me more is the fact that the range is knowingly employing or using this man in a safety capacity who serves as a representative of their business. Again, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume it was unintentional...but someone should politely but firmly step in and talk with him about this...preferably range ownership/ management...but even another shooter in the range. It would probably have more impact if it were to come from one of his peers or another R.O.

I'd also be ticked off if my range shooed me off the range prior to closing. I can certainly understand a range wanting to close and lock the doors by the displayed closing time, but not before then, unless there was some mitigating factor. (the range I use has closed a few times over the years for range maintenance and repairs but these are always communicated to members either by email or verbally when you check in). I usually shoot until just before closing time, but my personal routine is to stop shooting, box up my guns and gear, pull down my targets, clean the brass from my lane, exit the bay, pull off my earpro, hit the rest room to clean up, and check out and pay off my running tab, with 5 minutes to spare. The range employees finish cleaning the range and preparing it for the next day's business after the doors have been locked.

As for picking up other member's brass we all pitch in to periodically clean the area behind the firing line but we generally don't pick up the brass immediately in or around the actual lane partitions and leave that to each individual shooter. I generally pay attention to which shooters are making an effort to pick up and keep their brass and which ones are simply sweeping up all brass in the dust pan and dumping them into the common range dump bucket. If I see some brass from another shooter roll away from their lane and they repeatedly ignore it I might eventually pick it up and keep it, or if safety and circumstances allow, we'll even ask each other if we are saving brass, but I would never just sweep up or pick up another shooter's brass without first asking. Often, although not always, I'll stop shooting briefly after a mag or 3 and quickly pick up the brass in my lane and immediately behind it, just so as to not step and slip on it or keep another shooter from stepping on and possibly slipping on it.

Trust me, that R.O. hasn't seen slow shooting...he would have plenty to comment on if he were to watch how slowly some of my strings are. I have a specific plan when I go to the range and if I'm doing defensive drills then I'll let the brass fly...but when I'm checking ammo/ accuracy/ or doing sight replacement/ adjustment I'll often bench rest a gun and, between pulling the target in to check and make various notes, it often takes several minutes between shots. Different shooting for different purposes.

quote:

Originally posted by limblessbiff:
You’re much more patient than I am. I’ve stopped putting up with anyone’s bs at the range these days. Especially that trick they play stealing your brass. I used to take a mosin with me and just only bring it out when annoying assholes like that buzz around, something loud and unpleasant to be next to usually gets you some personal space

Bet they scoop those surplus steel casings right up, too.

I'll make this short and sweet. If said farts were not the owners of the establishment, I'd speaking to the individual that is. I'd be polite, and clear about what happened, from the safety violations of the range officer right down to the invitation to leave a half hour before the BUSINESS closes. I'd ask if that is in fact "how it's done" there and see what his reaction is. If he affirms that it is, I would respectively submit that he change his posted hours of operation.

I just went to the range with my oldest son for his second time ever. I stayed behind him at all times only coaching when needed, and would've been quite unhappy to have someone come into the lane in front of him for no good reason, let alone an R.O.

Sounds like the old farts thought they were being subtle and clever about getting you to leave the range early so that they could too. How dare you show up and start shooting a measly hour before the range closes!

quote:

The front sight really pops but the rear sight seems dim in comparison.

Not necessarily a bad thing.OTOH, the M17 seems to provide the same benefit (as I see it) just by having a larger dot on the front sight.

quote:

Originally posted by Dakor:
Sounds like the old farts didn’t respect your time or money, not to mention basic firearm safety. Unlike the previous replies, I can’t stand idiots like that at any age.

Yeah, fuck those guys.

Pretty much why I stick to member only ranges where you police yourselves, other than maybe 1 RSO for the whole place.

Why get concerned, they will be dead soon. Just remind them of that, and ask how things were in the Wild Bill Hickok days and whether they remember the Gold Rush. That usually makes an impression.

Those are probably the same kind of assholes that see you with an AR or AK and make sure to remind you half of a dozen times not to rapid fire before you even put your target up. That’s usually an indicator that the rso is an annoying prick. I even had one try to tell me to let him clear any malfunctions. I responded to him by telling him that I’m a vet and don’t need or want him to touch my guns. He told me that if I didn’t like “his rules” (not range rules mind you) that I could leave. So I packed my stuff up and on my way out I told the manager that the RSO was stupid dick that just lost them a customer and why. Guy told me he’ll have a talk with him but I was too pissed off and left. Haven’t been back since

God but am I ever happy I seldom ever get to an indoor range. Couldn't abide with the BS.

They were most likely annoying, ignorant people BEFORE they were old! Being old doesn't make one stupid or rude, it is a life long path. I am "old" and never give unsolicited comments, but then, at the range I stay the hell away from everyone else and expect the same. Know-it-alls seem to have no minimum age