quote:

Originally posted by gc70:
I would like to see a group like TTAG that has some credibility test an early-production P320 with an original trigger.

If an early P320 failed the drop test, it would indicate the design was flawed from inception.

If an early P320 passed the drop test, it would validate the design, but indicate that Sig had subsequently allowed implementation of the design to veer off course at some point.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
In addition to reducing trigger mass below the pivot point, it might be possible to increase the mass above the pivot. This would move the center of mass of the trigger to the pivot point and make its inertia neutral to impact forces.

The problem of course is that if the trigger is neutral, it would not be balancing out the trigger bar. Thus a nose down drop would be more likely to cause the gun to fire.

Balancing all the firing mechanism parts so that taken as a whole they are inertia neutral would seem like a solution.

But, while the trigger bar moves in a linear fashion, the trigger itself rotates around a pivot point. Thus impact forces will act upon the parts differently depending on the angle of the drop and the angle the individual part moves. I suspect this is what may have happened in this case.

If the gun were dropped barrel straight up, the trigger would be pulling the trigger bar directly opposite the inertia forces acting on the trigger bar. But when dropped an an angle like in the video, the force on the trigger bar (counter balancing the forces on the trigger) is off by 20-30 degrees. On the other hand, the force acting on the trigger will remain roughly parallel to the angle of movement for the trigger around the pivot point. This will increase the chance that the trigger can cause a firing as there is less force counter balancing it.

Ideally, you would want the inertia forces to be balanced in all directions. That however is impracticable when parts are moving along different vectors. And what solves a problem at one angle may create it at another.

It might be possible to "self" balance each rotating part across its pivot point, and have the linear pieces rotate a lever that pushes another mass in the opposite direction, thus balancing along that vector. In this way everything that moves is either self balancing or is 100% offset. And no matter which direction force is applied, nothing moves, But is it worth it in terms of added complication?

At some point, enough is enough. If a gun is completely safe with a five foot drop onto concrete, is it safe with a ten foot drop? Twenty? If the forces are great enough, everything fails. Probably just easier to add a trigger tab safety and call it done.

I have not taken physics or engineering in many years however. Just thinking out loud, so to speak.

I like hammers.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Should the military/police/civilians carry a weapon that isn't 110% drop safe?

Wait, the M4/AR isn't drop safe, AFAIK.

A little perspective please.

quote:

Originally posted by RX-79G:
If you drop an M4 from shoulder height at any angle, will it drop fire?

I had thought the answer was "no" and that it took considerably more distance than that to pop a primer with the full length firing pin or to bounce the sear.

quote:

Originally posted by RX-79G:
I don't disagree. The thing is that the "standard" needs to a be drop height that weapons will all safely handle at any angle, not a formal drop test that they have all happened to pass.

AR15s are 60 years old. Drop safety probably came up by now since they started life in an Air Cav war. They seem to be okay.

quote:

Originally posted by RX-79G:
Same firing pin. The bolt carrier is heavier on the military FA ones, but everything functions the same.

quote:

Originally posted by lmacrichter:
All I can say is if all this had come out 3 weeks ago I would be holding a M&P 2.0 with night sights instead of a P320. I sure hope this gets resolved quickly. I really like the P320 better and features like the trigger and sights as well as the Sig reputation are the reasons I went with the Sig.