We are wondering far off the point of this thread. But I get that you can just directly or indirecly (via a sub) print up a batch of suppressors. But that's not a survivable business model. How do you get them distributed and sold. The idea that a low volume new entrant would be in your local shop boggles my thinking (re: the Varnish above). There is not a chance I would come across a suppressor in stock at any of the local dealers in my area that I don't know the mfg. name. Sure if I know exactly what I want and its somewhere they can order I can get anything, but in stock to look at like you suggest but two odd ball low volume nobody ever heard of in stock at the same time to touch (dillon and vanish) not a chance on this planet.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
We are wondering far off the point of this thread.

I don't think we're off topic, the discussion is today's top choices of 5.56 cans and a handy video comparing a couple dozen of them. There are some that didn't make the video simply because he didn't have them. A huge chunk of those cans in the video are 3D printed - that's where the industry is going. We're at an interesting time with this technology, it's definitely a turning point.

As for what's in my local store, well... East Valley Tactical (formerly "Mr. Silencer") is kind of a different store. Suppressors and NFA stuff really is their specialty. I haven't been to another shop that's even remotely like this one. It's the shop that runs a bi-annual suppressor industry range day. They even have some exclusive models of various things made for them by some brands. The Vanish I handled was in an EVT exclusive finish of whatever shade of tan. So, they're definitely a specialty shop, and not at all representative of your usual mom 'n pop gunshop. The Exigent, I'd say is maybe an oddball brand, sure, but the Dillon? Surely you've heard of the M134 Minigun.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
But that's not a survivable business model. How do you get them distributed and sold.

Sure it is. You get them distributed and sold the way you would anything else: Get your product in people's hands, do the social media thing, and go out and meet owners of shops. You set up booths at industry trade shows, and you network. I worked at a small company that made boutique guitar pickups. We had less than a dozen of us working there when I started with the company, and I built stuff for recording and touring artists you'd know by name, shipped product all over the world. You just put in the work, and it's absolutely a survivable business model if you make a good product, stand behind it, and take care of the customer. My old company has been in business for over 20 years now and has grown to several dozen people and went from working in a converted garage on the owner's property when I started, to owning a three story production facility in downtown Tacoma.

Also, the market for suppressors the last two years has blown wide open. This is absolutely the time to try to break into the industry if you have the ideas, the startup capital, and the business mind to make it work, especially with what's going to go down starting New Year's Day. Doubtless, some of these brands will go the way of Huntertown Arms, but I'm sure plenty enough of them will do just fine in the long term.

After a TON of back and forth, I got the Hux Flow 556 Ti this morning.

It should be at my dealer in the next few days and I plan to get the paperwork started ASAP. I have no interest in waiting until January 1st and getting in line with everyone waiting on a free stamp.

I actually tried to place an order for an Ekron yesterday morning and the dealer's website got hung up on checkout. The glitch gave me enough time to change my mind (again).

Oooooh, buckle up for round two!

some of this boggles my mind. the B&T Tiger 22 is a .22LR rimfire suppressor. That it survives is amazing. WTF is he talking about. What have I missed????

I don't know, but after I sell my buddy my Bren tomorrow, I'm heading straight to EVT to pick up my Ekron and buy an Exigent Vanish and a B&T Tiger 22.

I've been watching every video on the Tiger 22 that I can find this last week and it's a shockingly impressive can. I guess it came out five months ago and people are just starting to pick up on it. If you check this guy's channel, he did a comparison of the Tiger 22 and the SAW Katan on 5.56 rifles and the B&T survived far more than it should have. Both of them did, really, but for $300, the B&T sounds better and holds up better than it seems like it ought to have any right to.

I'm going to buy a tiger as soon as my dealer gets another one. But your not actually suggesting that you plan to use it on a 5.56 gun???
Based on this latest comparision I'm loving the dillion more.

No, it's only going to be a .22 can for me. I love that it'll hold up to that kind of abuse, but I don't want to wear my stuff out just because I can. I've seen some footage of one being used on an M&P 5.7, and it sounded great, so maybe some day if I pick up a 5.7 pistol I could see using it on there. But no, short of that, .22 only.

The Dillon definitely sounds great. Eric at EVT is really impressed with the Vanish and I trust him, so I'll call that my 5.56 titanium can and the Tiger my .22. More or less, that only leaves a .45 can of some sort to have all the bases covered for the foreseeable future and I don't care any about feeding or suppressing a .45, so I'll be done other than mounts. I plan to switch everything over to Plan B titanium stuff, and since I do expect a run on those also, I want to get that done by the end of next month. With any luck, I'll be rolling into the new year with everything I really care about as far as NFA stuff basically done.

5.7 is not a stretch for .22 cans my rugged and dead air .22 cans are rated for it.
but to see if one can survive a 5.56 round seems excessive and abuse.

Well, they're closed on Sundays. I'll head over there in the morning and see what's what. I'm looking forward to trying out the .30 cal Ekron, but I honestly kind of wished I'd waited for them to restock the 5.56 version. Oh well. It'll be more to pick up a titanium 5.56 can, but I think in the end, I'll be happy I got both handled now.

I'm definitely picking up a Tiger, and I'm definitely not shooting 5.56 through it. I want my stuff to last. At the last EVT shoot, the SAW booth had a variety of hosts set up with the Katan, and I got to shoot 5.56 through it on a Ruger American with no ears on, and it was not painful in the least. It was actually about as loud as a .22 with no can on it, so I know it can be done, but I have no desire to do it because, well, I have 5.56 cans. I'm really excited to finally be getting into suppressed .22, especially with a one-piece titanium can.

A long time ago, I bought a High Tower Armory 10/22 P90 shell conversion kit thing. It comes with a faux suppressor shell that'll work as a suppressor shroud. I need to put all that together, and then I'll have a suppressed .22 trainer to get my 11 year old son up to speed with before shooting the real thing.

i’m wondering if the shutdown will stop all nfa activity?

I haven't been up on that, but I would guess so. As long as it doesn't go through the new year, after tomorrow, I won't care.

I'm desperatly trying to have my dealer get one can in stock to submitted in the hope the ATF will approve a bunch of things in the inbox right before the shut down. I'm guessing that's a long shot. But I would guess that the shutdown plus the jan onslaught will end any hope of a quick approval from here on out. Hopefully I'm a pessamist. At a practical level I don't care as my personal collection is adequate, but I have a gene that I hate it when I can't get something I own approved...

Well, my last two approvals have been five days each, so if there's a shutdown on the first, I'm hosed lol. I guess we'll see. I plan to be at the shop when they open this morning. Hopefully there hasn't been a panic run on cans with this shutdown stuff and I can get my other two started.

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
That video is excellent! Disappointed that the SilencerCo Velos LVP wasn't included in this comparison though...Just sayin'

By the way, did you watch the second video? He starts with the Velos. It wasn't good.

Well. I picked up my Ekron, and they didn't have any Exigent Vanish in stock. I kind of figured that would be the case. They won't restock for maybe another month. I'm not waiting that long, so I started a 5.56 Ekron in FDE, and a B&T Tiger 22. So that's basically the full compliment of calibers covered with low backpressure titanium cans. I didn't foresee my going three deep into SAW cans in a few month's time, but I really like what they do and I'm not mad about it. If the Vanish and Rhino S are still the super hot shit in a few months, I'll get one going then. I feel confident with SAW and their track record, so I don't feel too bad about having the same can in two calibers since I prefer matching the can to the caliber. I guess this means I'll eventually need to build a .300BO.

I guess we'll see what happens with the shutdown. I asked, and they looked it up and confirmed that ATF processors aren't deemed "essential," and so the window on awesome approval times may well close in less than 48 hours. I guess we'll see whether I'm picking up cans in a few days or in a few months. Regardless, I'm locked in on current prices and won't have to backorder or waitlist anything as far as cans. Need to pull together the cash for a DD PCC next.

Polonium with Griffin XL mount - 15.3oz @ 7"
Ekron with JMAC Customs Titanium hex mount - 10.5oz @ 6.75"
Griffin Explorr taper mount version - 8.89oz @ 6"

So, both lighter and shorter than the Polonium I had on there. It's not as short and light as the Griffin Explorr, but it'll be a fuck of a lot quieter and less gassy than either one. This will be a massive upgrade. Probably won't get to the range today, but hopefully tomorrow. Won't be able to do a direct A/B test because I got Plan B stuff this time. I'm going to relegate the Griffin to the PS90 and migrate everything else over to the Plan B ecosystem, including my PCC's.

My 11.5" URGI is now wearing a .30 caliber Ekron for now (when I bring home the other Ekron, that'll go on here), a full power PEQ-15, and tomorrow, a Surefire 340DF with a DS00 and an Axon. That's the night vision gun done. Now to finish up the 14.5 URGI.

I brought home the .30 cal Ekron Monday, and due to a very busy schedule, wasn't able to get to the range until yesterday. It was packed, apparently rifle season is opening soon and everyone was there zeroing their hunting rifles.

I got the last open bench between a guy shooting a .938 Lapua Win Mag Nitro Express with a three port brake and some kids raining .45 brass all over my bench. Did I mention that I changed over to Plan B mounts? No? I did. Jmac Industries titanium Plan B Hub mount in the can... and a Rearden SPB (single port brake). Every round that guy with the dinosaur killer touched off rattled loose a cloud of the sound dampening shit from the ceiling. I probably got lung cancer off inhaling all that dust. The rounds he was slipping into that thing looked like he was puling from a bag of carrots. Once I started zeroing my 11.5", I guess he reckoned he didn't like being next to something just as punishing, because he didn't last through two magazines of that. It was just as loud as his dinosaur killer from behind the gun, I can't imagine how fun it was to be next to it. The kids with the .45 left in a hurry also. By the third magazine, I had that whole end of the range to myself. I threw the magnifier on, and popped some steel silhouettes at 200 and 300, and satisfied I was zeroed, went ahead and mounted the Ekron.

So, one thing about these 3D printed titanium cans I've learned is that your first couple shots through them, you're blowing out a bunch of what has to be pure cancer. Clouds of shit that smells unlike anything I've ever caught whiff of from a firearm or suppressor. After the first 30-50 rounds or so, most of that calms down. Once you get a hundred or so rounds through it, you're more or less getting to how the can is going to continue to perform. The Ekron is very, very quiet. I smelled gas exactly once, but then again, I'm not gas sensitive. Seemed to me that the rifle recoiled a lot smoother. No POI shift, either, which is always nice. There was some fouling on the BCG and in the receiver, so shit is still blowing back into the gun. I wiped out as much as I could and re-lubed the carrier group. It's hard chromed, so cleanup is easy and it's easy to see how dirty it actually gets. I suspect as I break in the can, less stuff will blow back into the gun. That's the case with my 9mm SAW can so far. The Stribog got dirty, but at a certain point, stopped getting dirtier, if that makes sense.

I'm taking the URGI and Ekron out tonight with the guys to cowitness my PEQ with the Eotech and run it all through the paces, and then next weekend, I'm shooting an PCSL 1 gun NV match with that setup. I'll post a picture when I get a chance. Looking forward to tonight, I'll reply back with my impressions of it. I scouted out a nice spot up against a mesa that we should have all to ourselves. Wide open vistas in every other direction, so the report should be interesting. Yesterday morning, Brass Facts uploaded a video with some "do it all" AR setup he's settled on, and he was using a 5.56 Ekron. There's a short clip he has in there with the thing glowing like a fucking lantern under NV. Apparently, that's the Achilles heel on this stuff: titanium cans emit a crazy amount of IR light when they're hot, and they do it quickly. I guess if your goal is overall signature reduction, well... stick with an RC2 or a Polonium on the budget end.

quote:

I'll reply back with my impressions of it.

We got out to the spot, which was essentially shaped like a large molar. I bungled my prep and only had one cardboard target and a full sized steel torso silhouette, so our choices were limited, but it was enough to get out there, zero, and do some comparison.

I shot the Ekron on an 11.5" URGI with stock gas setup, and a Spike's ST-T2 Tungsten buffer with a Tubb's flat wire spring. My friend brought his 11.5" with stock gas and a Geissele Super 42 buffer spring and H1 buffer combo. His rifle has a direct threaded Otter Creek Polonium.

We did some comparisons both at the ear, and standing about 25ft behind the shooter. The Polonium is quieter, which kind of surprised me. It's not a helluva lot quieter, but it is quieter. Now, what it is also, is comparatively very gassy. I have one, I'm happy to have one, I think it's a great budget can and if you can only have one can, a Polonium 30 or a K is my vote, and the full size sounds and works great on a short barrel... but it is gassy.

Before I shot it suppressed, I wanted to try my rifle out without the can to see what it was like shooting it with the Rearden SPB (single port brake). We compared it against my other friend's 16" with an A2 to see what was louder and there was no comparison. The 11.5" with that brake is jarring. The concussion and blast from it was just massive. I think we put two magazines through it and I said "ok, that's enough." I also noticed that the bolt carrier had a surprising amount of fouled lube all over it. I guess I need to finally do a detailed cleaning and get some solvent in the gas tube and elsewhere.

The Ekron 30 is very pleasant to shoot. There were only a few faint whiffs of gas, no frosting of the magazine, and the bolt and upper didn't get a heck of a lot dirtier than they looked before I mounted the can. I just wiped it out with a couple Q tips and a few paper towels and re-lubed it. It really wasn't bad after about two hundred rounds or so.

Oh, and as for the IR glowing stuff, I dunno how many rounds or how fast Brass Facts blasted through his to get it glowing like a lantern, but mine didn't do that, even with going through two magazines at a pretty good clip. Only the blast chamber and first couple baffles were glowing, and at that, not considerably brighter than any other can I've seen glowing under NODs. When I first got my Polonium, I got it smoking hot and had nearly the whole thing glowing under NV. It made my friend's Rix RX6 glitch out, it was so hot. I think the "oh it's 3D printed titanium, it emits a strong IR signature faster than stainless or inconel" thing may be hogwash. I guess we'll see in the long run.

Really looking forward to eventually throwing the 5.56 version on this setup. Hopefully a littler quieter in addition to being a little lighter and less suppressor shadow with the light and illuminator.

Oh, and the SAW Kalil 9mm prototype is definitely quieter than my friend's Flow 9K. I'm maybe five hundred rounds through the Stribog with it without cleaning it yet and it's looking pretty good. I'm sold on this flow-through stuff for the cleaning aspects, if no other reason.

The thread started with a video. My comments are in reference to that.

P220 Smudge, how many suppressors do you have? This is my third. Next year I'll buy one more and it should be my last one.
-------------------------
The video is nice and it took a lot of work to make it. Microphones, and the software behind them, obscure a lot of "data". The video still helps to us see things like gas from the open bolt, recoil and we can still hear some of the differences in pitch.

The microphone/software is 1/2 of the reason so many of them sound the same. The other 1/2 of the reason they sound the same is that they are incredibly similar. They have the same diameters, lengths, baffle styles, number of baffles, materials, coatings and attachment methods.

quote:

Originally posted by Freq Geek:
P220 Smudge, how many suppressors do you have? This is my third. Next year I'll buy one more and it should be my last one.

Seven, I think. Very soon, it'll be ten, and then I think I'm going to sell off my cans that aren't Stealth Additive Works (except the B&T Tiger, but I'm probably going to just also add a SAW Katan). I had a very informative, very telling couple of range sessions recently and I'm a true convert now. Hopefully there's enough of a demand for used cans after the new year that I'll be able to move several.

One of the big revelations was that the .30 caliber Ekron is quieter at the shooter's ear on a 5.56 and has a lower pitch than the 5.56 Ekron does. Their sales rep told me the only reason they're still making the 5.56 version is because people keep asking for it. I was skeptical, and we shot my 11.5" URGI with the .30 cal Ekron next to his 11.5" with the 5.56 side-by-side and had my guys array around us to tell us their impressions. There is no question, the .30 cal is quieter. It was also a lot slower to heat up to the point of glowing, which makes sense with more surface area and more chamber space. It is also lower backpressure still. The 5.56 version is a hair quieter at the muzzle, but that's not really what I'm into these days.

I did a night shoot last weekend at Ben Avery, and one of the stages, we shot out of the "saloon" where the second video was filmed. I was in there with a squad of ten guys, shooting a variety of rifles and cans. Notable setups include a plain Jane, unsuppressed 16" AR that was painfully loud indoors even with ear pro. A 16" AR with a Sandman S that was nearly as loud. What a garbage suppressor, sweet Jesus. Next quietest was an 11.5" AR with a Griffin Optimus 6, and after that, another 11.5" AR with a CAT WB. My 11.5" with the Ekron was quieter than all of them, but super sparky. The sales rep saw the video clip one of the guys took through his NODs and told me to throw an AR conversion kit on that upper and just dump a thousand or so rounds of really cheap and crappy .22 through it and foul the can. Oh, which reminds me - the big thing the guys noticed with us shooting the .30 and 5.56 next to each other was his wasn't throwing any sparks compared to mine. He said the big difference was that can had several thousand rounds through it and was very seasoned. The .22 conversion is the cheap and easy way to shortcut that and get the same results.

So, just some random musings about the whole "3D printed titanium 5.56 can" thing. Very soon, the .30 Ekron will be living on my Bergara anyways because something new I can't talk about will have dethroned it from my 11.5 URGI and the 5.56 version is going straight to the 14.5" URGI I need to finish up. Really exciting times.

I am sooo old and out of date after watching that video. I'm at 27 stamps, 11 are sbrs, the rest suppressors. my last can was a huxwrx 556k flow. that's out of date. lol