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Shot with three friends last night; we paid attention to our visible flash signatures. Griffin M4SDK on a 10.3" had the least flash, of the host/silencer combos used. Second place was a SiCo Specwar on a 11.5" The worst performance was kind of a toss-up; a Gemtech Halo on a 11.5" had a flash similar to the better performers, only longer; a YHM TurboK on a 10" had a shorter, but wider flash. The Specwar and Halo lack any sort of scalloping on the end cap; the TurboK is scalloped in three directions, around the exit aperture; and the Griffin has stubby little prongs.

What have other folks experienced, in terms of muzzle flash with their silencers?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KSGM,
 
Posts: 1121 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As you know I run surefire cans so I can't really compare it to anything but a bare surefire FH muzzle device. But in the night shoots I have done I would describe it as simply non existent. I'm running longer barrels and that may be most of the improvement but its really not much.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 10197 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
For real?
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I just got in a flash hiding end cap for my Sandman-K.



Not minority enough!
 
Posts: 7541 | Location: Cleveland, OH | Registered: August 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
in the night shoots I have done I would describe it as simply non existent. I'm running longer barrels and that may be most of the improvement but its really not much.

Have you been able to view the weapon from the side? I imagine that a small flash would be hard to see, from the shooters perspective. I have a RC2 set back for me, but it's in line (financially) behind the B&T RBS, so it'll be a little while. I'll be using it primarily on shorter barrels, of course, so I'll report my findings, in that application.
quote:
in the night shoots I have done

Do you employ night vision, hrcjon? If you do, I'd be very eager to read any contributions you may have to the night vision and thermal thread.
quote:
I just got in a flash hiding end cap for my Sandman-K.

If you're able/willing, I'd be curious to know your impressions of a side by side comparison.
 
Posts: 1121 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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KSGM I was hesitating to post my thoughts on this flash issue as its really not a comparison like yours and its from behind the rifle. But my experience includes a lot of rounds inside and flash is one of those things that bounces off everything inside so its very noticeable even if you can't see it directly from the side. I'll do my best to see if I can get someone to take a picture the next time we shoot at night (but won't be for awhile as that's a winter thing). Yes I have NV and I thought I had been monitoring that thread for things I might contribute, but maybe I've been a slaker.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 10197 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
For real?
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I’ll grab a body cam and try to take video with both end caps.



Not minority enough!
 
Posts: 7541 | Location: Cleveland, OH | Registered: August 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Relevant video I came across. More to say in the NV thread...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq6chWmOXpc
 
Posts: 1121 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
For real?
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finally got to it. 300blk with subsonic ammo.


with flash hider



without flash hider






both had first round flash. with the flash hider, it's smaller. Guessing it wasn't worth it for me to buy. lol



Not minority enough!
 
Posts: 7541 | Location: Cleveland, OH | Registered: August 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well, as you said, the FH cap makes a difference. The flash you're getting out of it, with that gun and ammo, is about what I am seeing from my short 5.56 guns, on every shot; presumably even brighter on the first shot.
 
Posts: 1121 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Rugged makes a flash hiding end cap with much more aggressive tines than most. SiCo seems to produce limited numbers of flash hider end caps for their Sakers (also with lengthy tines); as luck would have it my LGS had one of these. I intend to prove (or disprove) it's efficacy on a friend's Saker, and, if it proves effective, I'll likely have it welded to the front of a Gemtech Trek.
 
Posts: 1121 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have the shorty KAC CQB QDC.
Out of the 11.5” AR15 with the MAMs brake, I definitely see some flash on occasion - maybe 5-10 out of 30 rounds?
With the KAC Flash hider On my 11.5” MCX, i see far less flash, if any. Maybe 1 or 2 rounds of a mag. But that’s from my perspective as the shooter.

Without the suppressor, the KAC 3 prong is very effective at flash signature mitigation. The MAMS is a fireball that is a very good recoil mitigator.

The suppressor does have some shape to the business end, but i dont know how much it affects flash.



____________________________
While you may be able to get away with bottom shelf whiskey, stay the hell away from bottom shelf tequila. - FishOn
 
Posts: 7500 | Location: Alpine, Ut | Registered: February 17, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It does often seem as though an unsuppressed weapon with an effective hider has less flash than a silencer. Much of this discussion is very ammo dependent as well. It seems the Hornady Black 75gr Interlock "HD SBR" comes highly recommended, when it comes to low/no flash.

There's a tuber called kitbadger, who has a few neat videos of various setups, cans/devices, and ammunitions shooting a few rounds in the dark.

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Posts: 1121 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well, it turns out FH end caps just don't really do anything; at least not the Saker ones. I am disappointed, and pretty surprised. This was on a 10" 5.56, which is admittedly a difficult host.

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Posts: 1121 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So the Hornady HD SBR is indeed quite good. Shooting the same 10" gun, using a Gemtech TrekII, there was a huge fireball on the first and third of three shots with 55gr Hornady Frontier 5.56. There was only a tiny little flash on all three shots of the HD SBR. On a longer barrel, I'd suspect there'd be nothing at all.

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Posts: 1121 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I performed the same back to back 5.56 Frontier and 75gr Interlock test with two other silencers. The Suefire SOCOM RC2 has almost no flash with either load. I speculate that more baffles helps cut the flash, as the RC2 has no external flash mitigation characteristics, but does have a uniquely high number of baffles, for a can it's size. The Griffin M4SDK also had much better flash performance than the TREK2, but wasn't as good as the RC2.

A side note on the RC2: It definitely has better backpressure performance than other cans. It wouldn't fully cycle the 75gr Interlocks. This gun is built to be suppressed full time.

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Posts: 1121 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Tried to create a best-case scenario last night: SF RC2 on a 16" mid-length gas, with about a TSP of light oil as an ablative, shooting HD-SBR. I observed it through a PVS14. No flash on the first round; throwing some sparks by the third. Short of using the same silencer and ablative on a longer barrel, I don't know that it can get any better. It seems there's no way to eliminate flash, short of using very custom ammunition. I may try it again, with the Sig MK262 copy ammo, to see if performance is any better.
 
Posts: 1121 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Tried the RC2 on the same host again, still with the ablative, but with the Sig 77gr stuff. It didn't perform as well as the HD-SBR.

I also tried my recent 14.5" Otter Creek OCM5 project, with ablative and HD-SBR. I was pleasantly surprised that it out-performed the RC2 with the HD-SBR, that I had shot the previous night. Less flash on a shorter barrel; very cool. The most logical explanation is the larger internal volume of the OCM5, afforded by the reflex portion, leads to better flash mitigation. Neither silencer has a flash hider geometry on the front. The OCM5 has less baffles than the RC2, but still more than a lot of the four or five baffle designs that seem prevalent currently. Both are mounted on flash hider muzzle devices, though I don't know how much effect that may have.
 
Posts: 1121 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Chowser:
I just got in a flash hiding end cap for my Sandman-K.


Thanks for the video and reviews. Chowser: I bought a Sandman "K" hoping it would be the thing to tame down the blast from my 9" barreled Galil Ace SBR. It helped a bit, but even with the 5.56 end cap it is still pretty brutal.





Though I've got a couple 16" ARs I can use it on, I'm glad I thought about assigning it to my Tavor X95 in .300 BLK. With the gas adjustment set on "Supersonic", it worked perfectly using Subsonic ammo as well as the hotter (2300 fps+) rounds. It's nice to have the 5.56 option, but the Sandman "K" really is (for me) the perfect companion for the .300 BLK. Absolutely a pussy cat to shoot.



"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
 
Posts: 9844 | Location: The Free State of Arizona | Registered: June 13, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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One thing about ablatives that has become evident is: what they eliminate in flash, they make up for in vapor cloud. I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise, but it is a definite detractor. No matter how you're aiming (laser or optical), having a cloud between you and your target is not ideal. Not to mention it serves as a lingering indicator of your position.
 
Posts: 1121 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by KSGM:
Not to mention it serves as a lingering indicator of your position.

Probably not an issue where people are dropping over from the heat, but these two stills from competitions in Scandinavia illustrate something about suppressor use that I noticed and had never seen in any discussion of the devices. The guns were fired under similar cold weather conditions, and the photos were of maximum cloud density.


No suppressor.




Suppressor.




The more concentrated vapor cloud is visible in many other photos I have of suppressors being used in cold weather. It lasts only a few seconds, but it’s very obvious for a short time and would be very noticeable if someone were looking for a shooter using a suppressor.




7/93
 
Posts: 45885 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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