Before I type one more word, I'm going to speak directly to the guys who are inevitably going to pipe up with "I have a Dead Air ____ and it's got _,000 rounds through it, and it's been absolutely flawless." I'm glad it's worked out for you, but that's not part of this discussion.

Starting about eleven months ago, people started having failures with various Dead Air rifle cans. Some say it's just the Sierra 5, but I've seen Sandman S cans failing as well. The main problem seems to be baffles coming loose, and baffles crumbling. The problem shows up very quickly, generally within the first magazine or two. I've seen some guys say it was within the first five rounds. The problem is widespread, effecting hundreds of customers. There was also purportedly a bad batch that got shipped as part of a government contract.

Now, sometimes things just go wrong with a product line and the company steps up to support affected customers. That isn't happening. Instead, they:

• Are refusing to acknowledge the problem.
  
• Are ignoring questions of customers who've had cans fail.
  
• Are sitting on RMA'd cans for upwards of nine months with no word or just telling customer they're almost done. For months.
  
• Deleted their Reddit account after getting hammered there.
  
• Are deleting comments left on Facebook and Instagram.
  
• Blocking the people who left the comments after they've been deleted.
  
• More behavior along these lines detailed in the Dead Air blackout thread linked below.
  

They don't even make their own cans. They had a private label deal with BPI that resulted in bad tig welds for a number of customers, and now they're made by KGM, and that's potentially part of the problem - there's speculation, the only explanation that could make sense, that they're suing each other over this and have been gagged by lawyers. Other companies who make their own cans can just fix them and return them if something goes wrong.

Here's a thread giving the broad brushstrokes in case you'd like it restated:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/c...supporting_dead_air/

Here's a selection of Reddit threads detailing some of the issues:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/c...ierra_5_baffle_pics/

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/c...ts/14i4ek8/sierra_5/ (this one is my favorite, watch the video)

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/c...ts/14pq89x/sierra_5/
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/c...ong_have_you_waited/
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/c...vzqoi9/rip_sierra_5/
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/c...imate_pepper_shaker/
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/c...list_only_60_rounds/
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/c...14xzhwa/dead_air_cs/

Here's a Sandman that had a weld fail near the mount and launched the serialized portion of the can out in the weeds on the first shot, never to be seen again:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/c..._shot_on_a_sandmans/

I see people recommending the Mask here all the time, even as recently as a few days ago. Here's a Mask that the blast baffle fail after shooting 5.7x28 through it, a cartridge it's rated for:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/c...1x/dead_air_mask_hd/

Here's some stuff detailing their attempts to keep a lid on this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/c...deletion_megathread/
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/c...nt_asking_about_the/
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/c...stagram_in_response/

It goes on, and on, and on. The issues themselves are one thing, but Dead Air's response has been to do everything they can to bury the fact that there's a problem. That's unacceptable for any business in any industry. Silencerco issued a recall last month for a number of cans affected by bad welds seemingly out of the blue. They'll even work on cans that are in the process of waiting for approval, you just have your FFL contact them and they'll pay the form 3 and the shipping to fix it for you for free before you even get your approval. This stands in stark contrast to the way Dead Air is handling their problems. Who would you want to support with your money and most importantly, your months-long wait?

There's two other suppressor manufacturers that I know of currently stepping up in various ways to help out Dead Air customers left holding the bag. Griffin will credit you a dead Dead Air can towards any rifle suppressor, Ecco Machine will recore cans that have had baffles fail, and I'm trying to find it to confirm but I also recall seeing Andrew from Otter Creek Labs saying he'd help out customers who've had a Dead Air can fail. Other than that, customers seem to be stuck waiting for Dead Air to fix their cans, anywhere from 170 days to nearly a year in a number of instances I've seen in those discussions.

As always, everyone's free to do what they want. At the very least, I figured it was past time to at least have a thread about it since I keep seeing people recommend Dead Air cans who probably haven't caught wind of this. I think that's what the company is hoping for, but it's dishonest business, and here on Sigforum, I know we like to shine the light of day on unethical business practices.

Being an FFL/SOT, I have a number of cans.. a few are Dead Air. I have a Sierra 5 as well, I squint and hold my breath when I shoot it. I hate that this is happening, I met Mike Pappas once.. really nice guy. I have the same opinion though. Their refusal to make any kind of statement is unacceptable. I will not buy another Dead Air can and do not recommend them to customers. What really sucks is having Dead Air muzzle devices that are either permanently attached or attached with Rockset. They were my go to cans on my AR’s. Now I have to use a D.A. KeyMo device on a HUB compatible can if I pursue replacing them with another manufacturer.

Shit. I appreciate you putting this post together. I have a SOLGW with a knox device pinned so this is unfortunate as I just started looking for cans.

quote:

Originally posted by dry-fly:
What really sucks is having Dead Air muzzle devices that are either permanently attached or attached with Rockset. They were my go to cans on my AR’s. Now I have to use a D.A. KeyMo device on a HUB compatible can if I pursue replacing them with another manufacturer.

Yeah, that's a tough spot to be in. I know Rearden is highly recommended, but pulling a pin and weld sucks. As for Rocksett, I'm reading that soaking it in water undoes it, so that's doable. Seeing debate about whether hot water helps or does nothing, source I'm reading says the rep at the manufacturer he spoke to said it's heat resistant, so heating the water is pointless.

Oh, reminds me. I also found that for high temp thread locker (namely the shit CZ uses on the Scorpion and Bren 2's that put people in fits trying to get it hot enough to break loose without injury), soaking it in PB Blaster turns the thread locker into what is essentially the consistency of toothpaste. Dunno about Loctite Red, but I suspect it would work.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeGLI:
Shit. I appreciate you putting this post together. I have a SOLGW with a knox device pinned so this is unfortunate as I just started looking for cans.

You're welcome. I just kept seeing Dead Air recommended here and I think this whole issue was a bit of a blind spot for Sigforum, because due to Dead Air's best efforts to contain this PR mess, this conversation just isn't happening outside of Reddit, and some gun shops. Dealers are aware of the problem, but how often are we going in to NFA shops to bullshit about the latest suppressor industry drama? That's low on my list of stuff I have time for. But I do follow r/NFA to learn and see what other guys are getting into, and this Dead Air mess has been pretty much daily for at least the last six months. Figured Sigforum needed to know.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
soaking it in PB Blaster

That’s a useful tip. I’ve always been a little leery of using excessively strong thread locker, but when a TBAC muzzle device loosened up, I was advised to use Loctite 272. That tip might come in handy some day.

And I’ve always read that soaking in water is the way to loosen Rocksett. At least one Internet discussion says that even soaking for 30 minutes or so works.

Thanks for this post. I got my first can (rimfire) earlier this year and agonized back and forth between a Mask and what I ultimately endedup going with...the YHM Phantom. I've been happy with the can, and now I'm doubly so having heard this.

It's also timely as I'm starting to research maybe getting another one for my 9mm PCC. Dead Air would have definitely been in the running. Now not so much.

Can confirm that soaking for a short bit in hot water will allow Rocksett to loosen. Pin and weld, not so much..lol

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
That’s a useful tip.

Yeah, I was about to give up on the screws on my Bren 2 when I tried it. I don't know how long it actually took, but I gave each screw a little spritz over the course of about two days. I was done playing with propane torches and wanted to be very sure. I had started to strip the heads out before I used the PB Blaster, so I knew I had about one good shot left before I'd have to drill them. Used the rubber band on the torx bit trick with the first one, and after it broke free, there was almost no resistance. The rest all came out easily. It'll be the first thing I do instead of the last, next time I need to get some screws or bolts out that have serious thread locker.

I guess this is now a thread to talk about loosening Rocksetted muzzle devices instead of talking about DA.

Getting back to the original topic, DA is in a tough place right now, but just shutting down communications is just making them look worse. Maybe there are some legal issues between them and KGM, but it seems like they could say “due to legal issues, we cannot comment further at this time, but rest assured we are trying to get the cans repaired and returned as fast as we can”. I also haven’t heard that they have ever said what is issue is, or what the repair is. Maybe they don’t want to for liability reasons, but also not a good look. I’m more of a GA fan, and the only DA cans I have are a Nomad 30 and Wolfman (BP made) that I got years ago, I wouldn’t consider buying another DA can for the foreseeable future.

Have to think a lot of this is due to them not making their own suppressors, and not being able to directly control quality and do repairs in-house. There may be advantages to this business model, but there are downsides, and this is one. Not the first time either, since they felt they had to swap over Wolfman production over quality issues.

ETA: DA says all Sierra 5s fixed and returned. Nothing to see here.

https://imgur.com/gRNUxtu

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dwill104,

Why does it seem that Reddit is the only source of this story? If it were this big, why do I never see links to any other major forums/sites?

I'm not trying to say it's BS by any means; it just stands out to me that I've ONLY seen this come from one source. Since this is inherently a firearms-related issue, you'd think other, firearms-specific sites would be the first places it would show up.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
I guess this is now a thread to talk about loosening Rocksetted muzzle devices instead of talking about DA.

Hey, I reserve the right to go off topic in my own thread.

Besides, other members who have Dead Air muzzle devices may want to remove them.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
Maybe there are some legal issues between them and KGM, but it seems like they could say “due to legal issues, we cannot comment further at this time, but rest assured we are trying to get the cans repaired and returned as fast as we can”. I also haven’t heard that they have ever said what is issue is, or what the repair is. Maybe they don’t want to for liability reasons, but also not a good look. I’m more of a GA fan, and the only DA cans I have are a Nomad 30 and Wolfman (BP made) that I got years ago, I wouldn’t consider buying another DA can for the foreseeable future.

Their silence on this, and the lengths they've gone to in order to shut down any talk about it where they can is the polar opposite of what they should have done. Like you say, if they had made a statement that they're aware of the problem and doing everything they can to help the customer, but for reasons they can't get into, they can't say anything else right now, the general feeling would be "man, what a crappy position to be in, but I get it."

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
Have to think a lot of this is due to them not making their own suppressors, and not being able to directly control quality and do repairs in-house. There may be advantages to this business model, but there are downsides, and this is one. Not the first time either, since they felt they had to swap over Wolfman production over quality issues.

Had that conversation with a guy. He was saying if we decide to not do business with every Mom and Pop who starts a business with an idea but needs to subcontract with someone who has the capability, then that's bad. I say if Mom and Pop don't have a plan to, or are unwilling to support the customer when shit goes sideways, then Mom and Pop deserve to fail.

Dead Air not having the ability to repair these cans absolutely bit them in the ass on this one. Given some of the other issues I'm seeing, I also don't believe they have the ability to do any real quality control or meaningful inspection of the cans they have built for them. That might be fine in other industries, but being no better than a drop-shipper middleman where NFA items are concerned? I think that's a bad, bad thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
ETA: DA says all Sierra 5s fixed and returned. Nothing to see here.

https://imgur.com/gRNUxtu

I'm not seeing that this is the case.

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
Why does it seem that Reddit is the only source of this story?

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Ar...es-Thread/20-545241/

If we remove the poll option for "I just wanted to see the results, then the issues break down as follows for those Sierra 5 owners who responded to the poll.

No issues - 58.36%
Rattling baffle(s) - 22.99%
Catastrophic failure - 18.65%

https://www.snipershide.com/sh...a-5-content.7186409/

https://www.m4carbine.net/show...ing-on-with-Dead-Air

When I type "Dead Air Sierra 5" into Google, the second suggested search is "Dead Air Sierra 5 issues".


I'm frankly not surprised the GunTuber shills are quiet or even playing "nuh uh" on this one. Hard to get free shit if you don't toe the line, right?

Interesting in light of all this that I just received an email from Dead Air offering discounts for first responders and military.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Interesting in light of all this that I just received an email from Dead Air offering discounts for first responders and military.

I'm sure their business is hurting bad from this. It didn't have to be this way.

In the second video I posted, the guy talks about how Mike Pappas was supposed to make an official statement on this whole thing a few weeks ago. I'm not seeing anything about that having happened.

They just sent me a very nice note to join them at shot show. Which I imagine will be an event to watch as they try and dodge speaking on the ongoing problems.

Eagerly awaiting the footage of people asking them point-blank what their problem is.

Posted 11 hours ago.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/s/m9Epe7PqO0

Not a can, but also apparently not a one-off issue based on the top comment:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/s/xrxp8EfQAA

Not so excited about this. piston are somewhat a consumable product. I've broken them and its surely not the same issue as the Sierra 5's disintegration. yea ok if it went in 100 rds (as posted, surely doesn't look like it) clearly a mfg. defect. 10K rounds later I wouldn't blame the mfg.

Yeah, perhaps. That pattern of ports doesn't seem like a swift idea, though.

Any other suppressors from Dead Air experiencing issues?
I only have the Mask and Sandman-K. I was looking at the Wolfman but ended up with an Omega 9K instead. I again started looking at the Wolfman again when all this popped up.
looking at yhm now.