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New and learning. Dedicated rifle suppressor, or one of the newer "it does everything" cans? Login/Join 
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
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Never having owned a suppressor before and knowing I'll be in for a year wait or longer, I feel pressured in several ways. The first is I want to get the clock ticking on something, but I also don't want to regret my decision halfway into that process. I have evolved more to the "buy once, cry once" mindset, but the idea of at least one or maybe a couple versatile budget cans to get my feet wet understandably has it's appeal. I think for now, I'm going to skip over .22 and 9mm, at least in terms of intended usage on a pistol, and focus on rifle cans.

I started down the rabbit hole a few nights ago knowing basically that Surefire is highly regarded for durability and flash suppression with YMH and Rugged being the "if you can't afford a Surefire, these are the best bang for the buck" options. My FLL has a selection of suppressors online. He told me he can get basically anything, but not really knowing where to start, this is what I pulled up to look at to get started:

https://allarms.net/product-ca...earms/nfa/silencers/

The price for the YHM R45 caught my eye, of course. With it, the Rex Silentium, which I'd never heard of. Looking into them, they can be used on anything from the diameter of the bore on down. Here's a video of a guy shooting it with .308, 7.52x39, 5.56, 9mm, and .22. YHM's site says it's rated for a minimum barrel length of 16" in 5.56mm, but if you watch, I've set the video to start at him shooting it on a 10.5" full auto BRN180 and it does fine. Maybe it won't like thousands of rounds like that, I dunno, but he did it.


There are similar videos of the Rex Silentium MG7K being used on various SBR's and handling them like a champ also. For the $400 range, I think being able to put a can on just about anything is very appealing. I know if I wanted to leave one suppressor on a gun, like a 10" or 11" 5.56 as a dedicated can, we're getting into a different conversation where something like this is starting to look like a better option. I know the MG7K and YHM R45/9 cans are heavy for a pistol, but again, that's not my primary goal here. I want something I can put on different rifles, or my Scorpion or even P90. I can get into more purpose-driven stuff later, but I want to get something in the works real soon. I know the "jack of all trades, master of none" adage applies here. Mainly, I'm going for flash and signature reduction, and something that will take a lot of edge off the muzzle blast. Shooting in the desert under night vision will also be happening, so flash reduction is one of the heavier considerations. This guy in the video about does some other videos of various cans under NV and the R45/R9 do surprisingly well, even compared to other cans.

Would really appreciate any feedback or input. Didn't want to further hijack Indiana Boy's thread.


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Posts: 17241 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You can probably use a modern can on any gun with a shorter barrel that they recommend, and it won’t blow up. It may not last as long, and you’ve likely to have voided any warranty from the manufacturer, but it’s your $200 tax, 10 month wait can, and people can do what they want it. YHM is one of the companies most likely to reject warranty claims for violating barrel length IMHO.

I originally went for a “do it all” can (GA Optimus) as my second purchase. I quickly learned that it wasn’t a good idea as it turned out to be one of those jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none deals. A can made for the most punishing caliber in your collection is going to be too heavy or large for lesser calibers. Also, a 9mm can isn’t going to have as good suppression on 5.56 or 7.62.
 
Posts: 3344 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have a pretty diverse silencer inventory (though most are 5.56); one of them is a YHM TurboK. It isn't my favorite; it isn't the best performer; but it is an amazing value. Flash and sound suppression are both very good, for it's size, even on short barrels. The HUB threads in the back provide versatility in mounting (though I do recommend rocksetting your ultimate choice), and the direct-thread adapter makes for a very compact package. The little bullet-shaped embellishments are a bummer; I really wish they wouldn't do that.

When it comes to flash reduction, pairing your chosen can with the right ammo is what really gets the best results; even a silencer with a good flash reputation likely won't be able to tame shitty ammo, especially in shorter barrels.
 
Posts: 2212 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There is no does it all can. Every suppressor has a range of stuff it does well (the mfg statement of what they tested and support for calibers/barrel lengths is a pretty good guide) and while you can sometimes stretch that range you are always giving up something in the equation be it suppression, weight, life, etc.
I'm of the personal opinion (and I own a ton of suppressors) that the subsets of interest are:
.22lr (this can also do your 5.7x28 non p90) getting center fire cans to do this is silly.
5.56/.308/6.5 and similar. there are good cans that can stretch that range with short barrels and excellent performance
big bores (the magnums like .338LM .300winmag etc. ) These can obviously go smaller but it is truly overkill in weight and size
Pistol calibers. again it helps a little to have one for the caliber you want but using the .45 cans for 9mm etc. doesn't cost too much especially if what you want (rugged for example) can give you an endcap in the size you want. and the gun you want to use it on isn't some tiny little tilting barrel thing.
Precision rifle. These are cans intended for bolt guns and superior accuracy. You can get them in many calibers and the penalty for running a .308 on on 6.5 or 6 is not severe.

So having said all that if what you want is specific recommendations, we need the list of calibers and barrel lengths to have a decent idea of what to suggest.

Myself I have many choices but if people ask I say the following.
.22lr deadair mask is the class leader rugged obsidian is a close second.
7.62/5.56 semiauto surefire is the class leader. note 7.62x39 is its own subuniverse not covered here (but get the dead air)
PCC in this case I have no leader they are all good. I have the most experience with the wolfman and the the Rugged. I prefer the rugged since you can disassemble them but the wolfman is a better can.
Precision rifle Thunderbeast is the class leader
on the big bores I don't have a generic answer as I run several and it really, really depends on the exact gun.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 11023 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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Thanks for the replies. So far, it's looking like the "jack of all trades, master of none" thing to me.

Yeah, fair point on barrel lengths and calibers.
Big bore and precision aren't in the picture right now. I have .30 caliber rifles, an M14 and a number of WWII USGI rifles of various flavors, but none of them are something I would ever suppress. Really, we're down to:

11-16" 5.56mm
3-8" 9mm (I have a .40 G22 I see no reason to suppress and a 1945 Remington-Rand I'm not going to get a threaded barrel for so I think I could be fine with a 9mm can)
10.4" 5.7x28 (eventually since that paperwork hasn't been started yet, and also I lump .22LR in there with that)

I think it makes sense to get a .30 caliber can for rifle since I don't know what the future holds for certain, but I'm pretty sure it won't be anything more expensive to shoot than .308 or .30-06 in a modern bolt gun. I won't need anything rated for .300 Win Mag or anything that stout.

Also a fair point about the ammo affecting flash suppression. Hadn't thought about that.


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Posts: 17241 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There is no “one” suppressor fits all. Start with a 22 suppressor. Very effective for sound and flash suppression. You can use your existing sights, works for pistols or rifles. Price won’t break the bank. The materials determine the weight - lighter weight and effectiveness = Dead air Mask.
There is no one gun to meet your requirements that it does everything.
 
Posts: 2308 | Location: Southeast CT | Registered: January 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Again it matters a little how much future proofing you want to do versus the here and now.
There a number of great cans for 5.56 rifles. MFG are on a tear to make great 5.56 cans that are light and rugged as that is the core of the market for rifles. I personally run surefire, but this part of the market is really full of options from literally just about everybody you have heard of and tons of people you have not. If you can stand more weight and a bit more size then you can get a 7.62 version of a number of proven cans that doesn't trade too much in extra weight or volume or suppression and will do both. I'm really of the personal opinion of just get what you need and not try to guess too much what the future holds.
The 9mm market is completely saturated with options. Again as I said I have experience in a bunch of them and the dead air wolfman or the rugged obsedian seem the best options to me. Bonus points to the rugged as you can disassemble it. I have a couple of the Ti cans (surefire) and the difference in size/weight is not meaningful. I also have some of the very light B&T cans which have aluminum parts and don't do those and the similar options as the cleaning situation sucks.
The 5.7x28 situation is the one where it matters how accurately you describe your gun. If its really a P90 get the B&T QD p90 suppressor, really really good setup off the FN flash hider. If its a converted PS90 with the CMMG barrel and adapter then any .22lr suppressor in 1/2x28 will be just fine (get the mask).


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 11023 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I won’t use a .22 rimfire can on 5.7 after my one experience doing it led to an endcap strike. I was using a Rugged Oculus on a CMMG 8” RDB upper and after a couple of mags, it started unscrewing itself. It was direct thread and I had stopped after one mag to check the tightness. It seemed fine, but after a couple of more mags, it started loosening, leading to the strike. After that, I decided that a 5.56 can with a QD, not direct thread, mount is the way to go. Aside from a better mounting system, the truth is that a rimfire can isn’t great for 5.7. While you can get rimfire suppressors that can handle the pressure of the round, the issue is that rimfire cans are sized for the considerably less gas volume of .22 rimfire. 5.7 doesn’t suppress well with a rimfire can.

For the YHM Turbo K, it’s one of the few cans that I regret buying. It’s just far too gassy. My Turbo K is 2 1/2 years old, so it’s the previous Gen with the flash hider endcap. Their new RB version is supposed to be a lot less gassy, but it also seems to be about 3 oz heavier based on published specs. They are cheap, but it wasn’t what I was looking for in a lightweight 5.56 can. My TK has been relegated to my CMMG 5.7, and my PS90, if I ever get around to SBRing it. It’s replacement on 5.56 is a Griffin Explorr 224 which has the new Gen 2 low back pressure baffles, only weighs 9 oz (about the same as my old TK, but less than the new RB version), and has better suppression numbers. Arguably, it is more expensive than the YHM can, but to me a can that I enjoy is of more value to me than one that’s monetarily cheaper.
 
Posts: 3344 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Indiana
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On my first 5.56 can, I prioritized value and durability.

Prioritize weight. A steel/inconel can on a 16" AR is a hog.
 
Posts: 14126 | Location: Indiana | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
Again it matters a little how much future proofing you want to do versus the here and now.
There a number of great cans for 5.56 rifles. MFG are on a tear to make great 5.56 cans that are light and rugged as that is the core of the market for rifles. I personally run surefire, but this part of the market is really full of options from literally just about everybody you have heard of and tons of people you have not. If you can stand more weight and a bit more size then you can get a 7.62 version of a number of proven cans that doesn't trade too much in extra weight or volume or suppression and will do both. I'm really of the personal opinion of just get what you need and not try to guess too much what the future holds.


Yeah, hell with it, I want the here and now. Consider me enabled. I'll just go with a 5.56 can.

quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
The 9mm market is completely saturated with options. Again as I said I have experience in a bunch of them and the dead air wolfman or the rugged obsedian seem the best options to me. Bonus points to the rugged as you can disassemble it. I have a couple of the Ti cans (surefire) and the difference in size/weight is not meaningful. I also have some of the very light B&T cans which have aluminum parts and don't do those and the similar options as the cleaning situation sucks.


I keep hearing to avoid titanium, that it's nice and lightweight, but that's about it. Sounds like the Rugged Obsidian to me. Easy enough.

quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
The 5.7x28 situation is the one where it matters how accurately you describe your gun. If its really a P90 get the B&T QD p90 suppressor, really really good setup off the FN flash hider. If its a converted PS90 with the CMMG barrel and adapter then any .22lr suppressor in 1/2x28 will be just fine (get the mask).


The only place I see that suppressor for sale (or really any information on it at all) is Armsunlimited. They say that suppressor works with the CMMG flash hider. However, I think I'll just snag one of these to go with the 1/2x28 thread adapter and call it good.

Dwill104, I remember your thread now. We're in the same boat, I just need to file and pay the man. I think for now, the 5.7x28/.22 suppressor can just be back-burnered.

IndianaBoy, what kind of weights are we talking that you would consider heavy vs light?


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Posts: 17241 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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In regards to the TK: I did experience unexpected gassiness on one of the two builds I used it on. I consider the silencer a great value, despite a bit of gas. I got it primarily to have something HUB capable. It met that requirement, and now wears a Griffin A2 adapter, and serves as a loaner can. I think the TK is a great option for those who are on the fence in general, or having a hard time deciding on a specific can. The TK gets you in the door, and can inform your next purchase. It's also important to remember that favorable gas flow can mean less than ideal sound and flash performance; it's all a balancing act.
 
Posts: 2212 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Personally, I think anything over 12oz is heavy for a modern 5.56 can. One thing to remember when comparing weight is to look at the specs and see what is, and isn’t, included in the weight they give. Some of the HUB cans only give the weight of the can without any mount adapters, which will add a couple of ounces on top. Direct thread adapters are the lightest since it’s just a disc with a threaded hole in the middle. But when you’re talking adding a QD adapter like KeyMo, Xeno, Plan A or B, etc., your can is going to be heavier than it started. And, there’s also the weight of the muzzle device you’ll need to consider.
 
Posts: 3344 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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Ok, range across the street has an RC2 on an LWRC I can rent/shoot. That'll tell me what I think of a 17oz can on an AR. He said they also have a Nomad and Huxwerx of some flavor, so I guess I'll spend a little on rentals some time this week.


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Posts: 17241 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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If 12oz is your weight goal, that ought to narrow your field pretty significantly. It'll make the price go up too. The Flow556K might be something worth considering; I think it's light, and it's supposed to be cutting-edge. FWIW, I have the OSS 5.56 can; it does work as advertised. If you're able to rent a Huxwerx Flow can, I'd be curious what you think of it. The Nomads are too damn big, IMO; though they are light (especially the Ti).
 
Posts: 2212 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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12oz all in with a qd mount seems on the surface to be a pretty tough hurdle. and if dwill104 meant to include the muzzle device in that really really tough. Nothing I own would be close even the ridiculously small surefire mini says its 15oz and there's a couple more in the FH mount. And I willingly don't run that to get better suppression even at the expense of a little more weight with the RC2.
I love tbac stuff so if weight was my mantra I'd go there and then I think you can get under 12 even with the cb mount.
Be interesting to see what's available even if I'm unlikely to abandon surefire on 5.56 rifles.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 11023 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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Well, I didn't ask what barrel length that LWRC was, but 17oz on an 11" barrel may be entirely doable for me. On a 16" barrel or longer, I can see that getting awkward. When I started looking around at the weights of the stuff I had been looking at, 12oz ruled out a fair bit if I was going to stick to that. If I wanted to stick to that weight as a cutoff, the only thing I found at that weight so far is the YHM Turbo K, which is rated for a 10" 5.56.

I think it's not unreasonable to compare this to night vision. It's all trade-offs, there is no perfect anything, and I can either take the time and try to sell stuff off and save up to get the absolute best in-field... or I can start the clock now because any suppressor is better than no suppressor. In the end, I'll have a quieter, less concussive rifle that isn't a flamethrower under NV if I stop overthinking it and just do.

Regardless, I'm gonna try to make time to get to the range tomorrow and see what it's like shooting one of these things. I'll take notes of what it was so I can pull up specs to go along with my impressions of each, to include the gun used with it. The guy said "well, we don't rent you the suppressor, we rent you a gun with a suppressor on it." So, it looks like I won't get to swap and compare, but again, some impression and experience is better than none at all. The only times I've shot a suppressed gun was a buddy's... I don't even know what the hell it was on his Mk12 about a decade ago, and a friend's .22 pistol. Fairly different from the market I'm looking in.


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Posts: 17241 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I never claimed to count the weight of an adapter or muzzle device in the 12 oz metric. Maybe it is a bit too low, but a 5.56 can by itself shouldn’t weigh more than around 14 oz at most. This isn’t to say that a 5.56 can that weighs more than 12 or 14 oz is bad. It’s just not light. Heavy cans have their uses if you’re looking for things like max suppression.

Ultimately, people who want a can have to deal with X oz hanging off the end of their barrel and figure out what they want to live with. Weight is a tradeoff, just like cost, suppression level, restrictions, etc.

PS, have you looked at the Griffin Explorr 224? 9oz, no barrel length restrictions, and built it taper mount.

https://www.griffinarmament.co...orr-taper-mount-224/
 
Posts: 3344 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
stop overthinking it and just do
This may be advisable. Like I said before, in regards to the TK, just get something you think checks most of the boxes, and use your experience with it to inform your inevitable next purchase.

That Explorr looks pretty slick. I have been pleased with my M4SDK, but I am lukewarm on Griffin in general. I wonder if a direct thread built in would be even lighter; I suppose it'd have to be.

All but the heaviest cans are highly tolerable, IMO, considering the advantages of silencers in general. QD makes a big difference in weight. Deciding whether or not QD is important to you might be a logical first step. If you decide it's important, then I think it's a matter of deciding if you want a spin-off or a pull-off type QD.
 
Posts: 2212 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Look at Hansohn Brothers suppressor website. They tend to stock the “better” performers in each category. Use the website to familiarize yourself with current performers.
Look at the 223 category— you go from $500 (YHM) to over $1,000 (Surefire). Some of the bigger online retailers have FFL’s in each state— look at Capital Armory and Silencer Shop.
Energetic armament was started by engineers that used the latest metals to manufacture a high tech and lightweight suppressor. Look at the PS90 video with their NYX.
 
Posts: 2308 | Location: Southeast CT | Registered: January 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I currently use these mfg with more than two examples and they seem well engineered...surefire, dead air, rugged, TBAC, B&T.
So I thought it might be fun to see how much better I could do on weight by upgrading (this covering 5.56 offerings). For reference my go to 5.56 is a surefire at 17oz (includes the QD on the suppressor but not the barrel mount).
Surefire best I can do is a 762Ti at 11oz, not sure the barrel or firing restrictions on that? but get both calibers and a lot less weight
TBAC (I love these guys) 12.5 oz (no barrel mount have to ditch all SF FH).
Dead Air I think the closest is a Nomad Ti with Keymo at about 13.2oz. again doesn't give much help on the firing schedule.
Rugged looks like the radiant762 gets it done around 12.5 oz
B&T 14.8 oz but loses my surefire mount options. 21 oz when we get back to surefire mounts.
Fun exercise. Since the ATF takes so f***ing long to approve stuff I try to have at least something to look forward to, so I'm mulling some of these over.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 11023 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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