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New and learning. Dedicated rifle suppressor, or one of the newer "it does everything" cans? Login/Join 
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
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Ok, that Explorr has me interested. 9oz? That's light. When I got to looking at it, I started also looking a little closer at the M4SDII which, though about twice as heavy, seemed to have the advantage of being able to mount on any gov't contract spec A2 muzzle device. Then I see the Griffin video about "you need to use these washers and index the muzzle device perfectly, don't ever use on a device that has a crush washer, may not fit other muzzle devices, etc." The idea of being able to use a suppressor on any A2 muzzle device equipped rifle seemed like a neat advantage as far as flexibility. The thought of only being able to use one on a rifle where I've installed special tabbed shims makes that perception go up in smoke. Any input on that? Maybe something for further down the road, I dunno. If I have that correct, a taper mount can looks like a smarter choice.

^^^^I wrote all that before I went to the range. Scratch that, I don't want an 18oz can.

I think it's coming down to the Rugged Razor 556 and the Explorr 224. Same materials, both taper lock, both come with a taper lock flash hider/mount to start with, and it's basically save fifty bucks or shave four ounces. I think that narrows it down pretty nicely. Both companies have good warranties and reputation for support.


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And now to add a range report because I just got back. Shot the RC2 on an LWRC 14" SBR. It was gassy, and heavy. Next was a DD MK18 pistol with a bare buffer tube and AFG wearing a Sandman S. I found this one more pleasant to shoot, but not appreciably louder or quieter. Last was a Huxwerx OSS Ti Somethingorother on a DD M4 16". This felt like shooting a quiet musket. It was more pleasant to shoot than the other two, but it's such a goofy comparison in terms of the variety of rifles that it's hard to say what direction it led me in other than one alone. I have two degenerative disorders that are being treated but aren't what I would call "in check" and likely never will be. I can't put on muscle mass, try as I might, and weakness and fatigue are going to be a fact of life. The weight of the can will indeed be a major consideration for me. Flow-through is nice and less gassy, but I know there's charging handles for AR's that help with that and an AR is just going to be gassy. With the Bren, it likely won't matter that much. Or will it? Things I'm guessing at because I have no experience.

So, I think I'm leaning towards the Explorr .224. Will a 3-4oz difference between that and the Rugged Razor matter? Who knows. Without being able to A/B them on my gun, it's not like I'll know the difference anyway, but if I get the Explorr, I won't have to wonder. The MK18 was nice to shoot, and felt pretty light in the hands, even with the can on it. If it would have had a stock on it and not that angled abomination on the handguard, it would have been even better. I just checked, and at 5.88lbs compared to the 6lbs my Bren is, I think they're pretty comparable on paper. I see now that the Sandman is basically the same weight as the RC2, so I guess those few inches made a major difference in the handling. A can at half that weight is really appealing now that I'm puzzling this together. I know shooting indoors makes it hard to tell how quiet they actually are, but that almost doesn't matter because I shot 5.56 rifles at 16" barrel length and under, indoors, with almost no noticeable concussion or blast. Again, any can is better than no can.


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Posts: 17264 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
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WRT 22 cans, don’t get an aluminum can. Get the SS or TI can. Cleaning AL is either sand blasting or forever scraping. The SS & TI can be scraped and you won’t hurt the soft baffle or you can use The Dip.

My first can was a direct thread 308 from Coastal Guns. I shot it on my 5.56 and the higher pressure bent a baffle. Sent it back they put 338 Lap. Baffles in it- but it’s heavy as fuck, and nine inches.

The can I use the most is my SigSauer 7.62QD can. I move it from three different rifles and it handles 5.56 & 300 BO great. It’s smaller than the big Coastal and lighter. Having the ability to move it around makes me like it even more. Mine is SS/Iconel



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Posts: 11319 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The reason you don’t want to use crush washers with suppressor muzzle devices (including A2 flash hiders) is because crush washers don’t crush uniformly, and will likely throw the alignment with the bore off. It doesn’t matter for a flash hider as they have a large open hole at the end that’s only an inch or so from the muzzle, but being slightly off will matter to a just slightly bigger than 5.56 hole at 6 or 7 inches from the muzzle.
 
Posts: 3345 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think you're on the right track, with the lightweight can, considering your unique circumstances.

.02 on the M4SD: I have the "K" model, and I like it a lot. It is indeed quite versatile. You don't need to use the tabbed shim. That can will work with a lot of different muzzle devices, especially if you are able to have things tweaked by a machinist. Considering all it really requires is a NATO outside diameter, a groove, and a wrench flat, things can be easily modified to work, if they don't already. Because it lacks a depth stop, it is more versatile than the HALO style cans, when it comes to muzzle device choices.

The gassiness is very rifle and ammo dependent, in addition to the performance characteristics of the can itself. IME, a piston gun is not a sure thing, when it comes to silencer performance. I have shot short and long stroke guns, and prefer a DI for silencers. Is it a bit dirtier? Sure, but I feel that other performance aspects are better on a DI; a piston gun will still get dirtier too. The charging handles do work; I'd totally ignore the Radian one though; lean toward the PRI or SC ones.

When considering that 4oz difference, between the Explorr and Razor, you may do well to acknowledge the locking collar on the Razor. I doubt that's where all the ounces are coming from, but it's a feature that may tip the scales a bit. I don't have any experience with the Griffin taper lock, and can't speak to it's need, or lack thereof, for a secondary securing feature, but, if not having a redundant lock is going to mess with your head, you may do well to get the Razor.
 
Posts: 2234 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I do have experience with Griffin’s taper lock as all of my rifle cans are either Griffin, or use their Plan A adapter, and have never had an issue with one loosening. In fact, some people claim incorrectly that Griffin cans carbon lock onto the muzzle device because their taper is behind the threads, but this seems to be a rumor started by Q or other companies with a taper forward design. I’ve heard of more instances with the muzzle device coming off with the can (usually caused by not properly torquing the muzzle device) than the can coming off the muzzle device with Griffin. If people are really worried, they can get the utility mount (I.e. HUB) version of the Explorr and get the Dual Lok adapter for Griffin’s dual lock system.

The majority of manufacturers have gotten retention on their QD mounting systems pretty well figured out. As long as you properly torque the muzzle device, check alignment of the suppressor with the bore, and do some minimal periodic cleaning of the mounting interface mating surfaces (all of with are true for any suppressor with any mounting system), you shouldn’t have issues.

I wouldn’t overthink this. You can go down a rabbit hole diving into the minutiae of which can is the best and which mounting system is the best, and in the end there really isn’t a great deal of difference for the vast majority of shooters.
 
Posts: 3345 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
I wouldn’t overthink this. You can go down a rabbit hole diving into the minutiae of which can is the best and which mounting system is the best, and in the end there really isn’t a great deal of difference for the vast majority of shooters.
Agreed. I'd go with the built-in taper mount way before I considered a HUB, to save the weight. All mounts have their idiosyncrasies, all of which are mitigated with proper maintenance, as you stated. I think Smudge's leaning toward the Explorr is a good move.
 
Posts: 2234 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeinNC:
WRT 22 cans, don’t get an aluminum can. Get the SS or TI can. Cleaning AL is either sand blasting or forever scraping. The SS & TI can be scraped and you won’t hurt the soft baffle or you can use The Dip.


Filing this away, thank you!

quote:
Originally posted by KSGM:
The charging handles do work; I'd totally ignore the Radian one though; lean toward the PRI or SC ones.


Yeah, my friend who's a guru in the Mk12 community recommends the PRI as well.

I'll just start with the Explorr in a taper mount. I can quibble the details forever, but it's a reputable company, it reviews well, and that weight for the size is really attractive. If the taper mount is that solid that people are pulling off muzzle devices, I'm gonna call that good. I'm hard on stuff, but I'm no operator or competitive shooter, and I'm not going to put hundreds of thousands of rounds through it, so it should be fine. Another thing I hadn't considered is that supposedly, since it's lighter, it cools off faster. Given where I live, that's a plus.

Thanks for playing, guys. Smile

I'll figure out the pistol/subgun and .22 suppressor thing later. I was going to say the Rugged Obsidian 9 would be fine, but then I see the Otter Creek Lithium 9 is 5.7oz... I see a theme starting to develop here lol.


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Posts: 17264 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
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Ok, just ordered a Griffin Explorr .224 taper mount for $543, shipped. For that price, I decided to just get off the fence. Right or wrong, first can is in the works.

Gonna wait a little bit and stagger a 9mm can purchase, as per hrcjon's method. Not sure what it'll be just yet, but it's probably going to live on the Scorpion. Ratworx makes a semi-permanent thing that isn't too spendy. It's not a true integral, but it is a fat reflex can with MLOK slots built in and stays cooler than the IA-SC9 for about a third of the cost. The K version put it at two inches longer than the gun currently sits, should I swap to a K barrel. Local FFL is offering me a Rex Silentium MG7-K for $500 with tax, so a 3.58 in that wouldn't be horrible, either. Options, I supposed.


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Posts: 17264 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yew got a spider
on yo head
Picture of DoctorSolo
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Congratulations and good luck with the wait.

I went full Rugged, ordered a Radiant during their $200 promo last month, now I suddenly have mounts on 3 rifles and one on my PCC.
 
Posts: 5168 | Location: Colorado Springs | Registered: April 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
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Well, ATF approved the form 3 and I got a shipping notification. So hopefully I'll be filling out a form 4 in a few days. This whole process is so fucking stupid. Roll Eyes

I guess I'm buying a muzzle device or two so I can try it out in the meantime. Now to educate myself on alignment rods and such.

quote:
Originally posted by DoctorSolo:
Congratulations and good luck with the wait.


Thanks! Hoping for KSGM's luck lol.


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Posts: 17264 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Shall Not Be Infringed
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Regarding Alignment Rods, I got them from Geissele, and had also purchased their Reaction Rods a year or two prior. I trust Geissele implicitly on these type of items. They're not cheap and not always in stock, but definitely a worthwile investment IMO.


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Posts: 9013 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: October 29, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I use their alignment rods as well. Some suggest drill rod (cheap) but it sucks. In any case not to be a downer but you just missed big buck savings on rods over labor day at Geissle. But I paid full price and its worth it for the peace of mind.


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Posts: 11030 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
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Thanks, I'll get the Geissele. Paying the full ride on important stuff like that doesn't bother me.

I think I'm also leaning towards a linear comp, at least for the Bren 2 and 6933. 11.5" barrels are loud as shit unsuppressed and, as it turns out, can be pretty hard on suppressor baffles, so a sacrificial chamber helps calm that down a bit. Who knew? Razz

I have an almost-ultralight-but-not-really-but-damn-close carbine I'm putting together that's going to exclusively wear a scope of some sort. Lots of carbon fiber on this one, and with a 16" pencil barrel, I'm thinking the titanium three prong will eventually be what goes on there.

I already want a second rifle can. This NFA stuff....


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Posts: 17264 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
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The shop they shipped the can to sat on it for a week with no phone call. I had to chase their manager down, then it was "we'll call you when the guy who handles the NFA stuff comes in to start your form 4." Had to call some more, then got a call back at five minutes to five on Friday saying they will only do Silencer Shop for transfers, and if I didn't want to do that, they could transfer it to another shop. So, two weeks to ship the can, two weeks to find out they don't offer transfers other than through Silencer Shop, and now probably another two or three weeks for another form 3 to go to another store. A month and a half from paid to even being able to start the paperwork. All because the FFL I wanted to use wasn't one they listed, and that's all they do is NFA stuff.

Oh, and next week, I go out of town for nearly a month. I just wanted to have this sorted out first.

I have a call in to Shooting Surplus to see if they'll take the can back since the transfer hasn't started yet. Their policy seems to indicate they will. I wanted to start the clock on some cans a year before the election and this is cutting it down to the wire. Before the inevitable "Why don't you just use Silencer Shop? I've had great luck" comments, I've been reading horror stories involving them all this past year. I see no need to involve a third party to help fuck things up when I've already got a trust and can e-file myself just fine. The fact that the shop I got stuck with is too fucking lazy to do it on their end is my misfortune.

So I guess maybe as of today, I'm not tied to the Griffin ecosystem. We'll see what they have there. Maybe it'll just be a universal can. At this point, I'm too irritated to really care.


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Posts: 17264 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Dang. That sucks. I am sorry that happened. I'm curious to hear what that shop has in inventory.
 
Posts: 2234 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
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They had a bunch of stuff on the wall. I looked at a couple AB Warthogs. If they're not just for display and they'll price match SS, I think I'm just going to buy a Warthog 5.56.

Kept ringing Shooting Surplus until I finally got someone to answer. He needs to check with his manager tomorrow, but "most likely" I get to fuck off. Headed over to both shops to see what can be done. Maybe the first shop will buy me out of the Griffin, price it at the going rate and stick it in the display case since I was told twice I got it for below dealer cost. Fat chance on that, though. If I'm stuck with the Griffin, but probably won't get the form 4 filed until nearly November.


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Posts: 17264 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My local FFL has a CZ-branded AB reflex silencer. I am intrigued by their baffle design, and I think reflex cans are cool, so I am vaguely familiar with AB. I think, if you got that Warthog, you can get a reflex module from AB, to tinker with that potential additional performance.
 
Posts: 2234 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
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Spoke to the manager at the first shop. I was a little confused why he wanted to talk to me in the back room with the door closed. Guy thought I was there for a job interview.

No idea, and I mean zero, which end is up. He told me to have the other shop email him to start the transfer. "You mean at the email address you had me contact you at?" I had him verify his email address and mentioned he never replied to my email. "Yes, well, I get hundreds of emails a day." I said that didn't give me much confidence. He stammered something lame and awkwardly shuffled me out the side door as quickly as he could.

Anyway, the other shop got my prints, trust, photo, and e-forms info and put me in their system and said they'd take care of it. I guess I'm staying in the Griffin ecosystem to start with. I'll just deal with them directly going forward, especially since the owner said he'd match online sale prices.


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Posts: 17264 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
I see no need to involve a third party to help fuck things up when I've already got a trust and can e-file myself just fine.


Not sure what you mean by this. You, as an individual, can’t create or eFile a Form 4. Form 4s get filed by the FFL that you’re getting the can from. All you do is certify the eForm that the dealer prepares.
 
Posts: 3345 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
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Mostly what I meant was not needing to involve a third party with Silencer Shop, just me and the FFL deal with whatever paperwork is necessary. We're doing that now.

I think I'm going to go down there tomorrow and start a YHM Resonator 9. It's not a great pistol can, but by all accounts, it's an excellent PCC can, especially for the money. I want something that'll basically live on my Scorpion with a 3 lug, and that kinda fits the bill. I can get into more specialized cans later, and likely will.


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Posts: 17264 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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