During my recent knife search, I got more and more interested in automatic otf knives. I did some searching on the forum and the consensus seems to be if I don't go with a Microtech, I should at least stay Marfione Adjacent. I lucked out while browsing the Microtech website and on their blem page found this Ultratech:




It's a Star Wars "Sith Lord" blade with the tri-grip texturing on the entire frame, a double edge dagger with one side fully serrated to get the best of both worlds, and red cerakote to simulate the red lightsaber.

Since it is a blem, Microtech did laser engrave a grenade logo into the back to make sure someone doesn't buy it on the cheap, refinishes it, and sells it at full price. However, this picture is the only blems I found, and it was apparently enough to drop the price from $380 to $280.



It's got everything I was looking for in a blade (partial serrations, grippy texture, glass breaker) and has a lanyard loop so I can hook it to my keys so I won't lose it like my Benchmade Auto Triage. I don't know what blade steel it is because on the Star Wars line they don't laser engrave it into the blades, but it's likely M390 or 204P.

The downside right now is the knife is a little bigger than I want which means a UTX-85 could be in my future, but the button is about as sharp as the blade. I don't remember that when I played with Microtechs at my local dealers, but does it get better or is it more of a function that the action is still stiff and needs to be broken in? a UTX-85 Jedi Master could be in my future, but not if the button is going to be like this.

Does anyone have any experience with the Heretic Manticore? While I get that it won't be as grippy as the Sith Lord, is the button and action easier to deal with on the S or the E? I'm also interested in hearing any opinions on Guardian Tactical, but both companies don't seem to have a lot of knives in stock.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DanH,

Nice knife. I like the Ultratech. I would say the slider on mine is positive, but not sharp. It will relax in it's action some over time. Lube it as per Microtech's instructions.

Nice score! If you mean sharp as in the action is stiff and the texture on the button digs into your thumb, give it a week of fidgeting and you'll probably be just fine. Both you and the knife need to break in a bit, lol.

Check here for knives in stock. BHQ is legit:

https://www.bladehq.com/cat--G...n-Tactical-OTF--3177

https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Heretic-Knives-OTF--2891

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Nice score! If you mean sharp as in the action is stiff and the texture on the button digs into your thumb, give it a week of fidgeting and you'll probably be just fine. Both you and the knife need to break in a bit, lol.

The action is stiff, and playing with the regular Microtechs at the local dealer, I fully expected that. However, this model also has a polished section on the top:



I don't remember seeing that on the other Microtechs nor do I remember the other sliders digging into my thumb to the same degree and the polished points on the slider is what's sharp. I'm definitely going to keep the knife for cool factor alone, but for an EDC, I'm probably going to be looking for a UTX-85, a Dirac, or a Heretic Manticore E.

Anyone else have an experience with the Heretic Manticore line? It looks like they took the best from Microtech and Guardian Tactical and put it into a knife. I also really like how the glass breaker is better integrated into the handle compared to the wart/skull cracker on the Microtech. The Guardian Tactical Recon-035 is probably out until they make a smaller version of the Recon-40 with the glass breaker (It's one of my requirements on an EDC. I've watched too many episodes of Mythbusters to not want one).

I did get an answer from Microtech on the steel. They said that if it was built in 2022 or 2023 it's M390. Kind of wish that was engraved somewhere or on the carry clip, but I get it.

Very nice. Congrats. I bought one from Redleg and gifted it. Beautiful knife for sure.

I tried adding some Wilson Combat UltimaLube on the track under the slider and it's gotten easier. However, if things don't get better in a week, expect to see this up for sale while I get either a Guardian Tactical Recon-035 or a Hogue Counterstrike becomes my EDC.

Wish I could have one but like anything else that could be used to hurt yourself it’s a no no here in the 808

I took the long drive out to my local Microtech dealer to handle several models, and mine had the sharpest button of all the models I tried including the Combat Troodon. Yes, the actions were still stiff, but the sliders did not have any sharp edges. I'm not very happy.

I took advantage during the Labor Day weekend to buy two other OTFs from Blade HQ. I found a Guardian Tactical Recon-035 in red with a dark stonewashed partially serrated dagger blade for $279 and a Hogue Counterstrike in Dark Earth G10 on sale for $249. Here they are compared to my Ultratech.





The Hogue is basically their version of an Ultratech with the dimensions almost exactly the same. It's a drop point, but you couldn't tell it unless you held it. The blade is CPM 20CV and out of all three knives, it's the only one that can say it's 100% US made as the Ultratech and Recon are both from Bohler in Austria. It's also the thinnest blade of the three coming in a 0.009." It's a good slicer, came very sharp in the box, and unlike Microtech, the blade is PVD coated instead of Cerakoted. The action is Microtech stiff, but the button comes up to a taller point and no where near as sharp as my Ultratech. It's also tall enough that you can fire the knife just using the pad of your thumb or the tip of your thumb. I also like that one side of it is G10. What is it with everyone needing to make their knives all aluminum? It's different from basic black and at $249 is an incredible value over a standard Ultratech.

If Microtech sold this knife, it would be about $450.

The downsides for me is I'd really like a partially serrated blade as some of the plastic bags I have to cut open need to get run through the serrated teeth to start the cut while the rest of the blade can take it from there. It's also not very grippy. I was expecting with G10 that I'd get close to the grip of the Tri-Grip pattern of the Ultratech, but at least there's jimping on the top and bottom to help with your grip. I also had one misfire after running the action about 20 times. It doesn't fill me with confidence considering the Microtech and Guardian Tactical have been snapped open even more times and still haven't failed.

What's probably the worst part about this knife is the glassbreaker and lanyard loop. For me, it's a desired feature, but this implementation is terrible. Instead of a carbide ball bearing, Hogue uses a dull carbide spike that's stabbed me in the palm multiple times when I've reached for the knife. It also uses a similar lanyard loop to the Microtech, but it's much larger and has also stabbed into my palm when reaching for the knife. Hogue does have a workaround for this if you bought the $400 Signature Series version. In that one, they provide a screw where you can take the glass breaker off and fill it with a rounded screw head. Not in the standard version. It seems that extra $80 MSRP is required for that 50 cent screw. It's also a little larger than what I want and would gladly buy a "UTX-85" version of this knife if they made the improvements I mentioned above.

This one is going back.

As far as the Guardian Tactical Recon-035, I'll get the main point out of the way. Everything you've heard about the action is true. 100%. It still takes more strength to open that a small child or my mother with arthritic thumbs can manage, but it's still very smooth and doesn't bind up before it fires. The dagger blade is Elmax and is supposedly easier to keep the edge on with stropping than the Hogue's 20CV or the Ultratech's M390, but I'm not that far down the road to test that out. It's also very sharp out of the box and is probably the sharpest knife I've ever owned. It's also got a much thicker blade that the others measuring in at 0.014" and 0.75" wide. The blade is also stonewashed so it will likely wear better and more naturally than the Cerakote on the Ultratech or the other Recons. One downside is there's no glassbreaker, but on the other hand, the deep carry pocket clip buries this knife very deep in your pocket with only the keyring/lanyard loop sticking out of your pocket. The shorter length and wider grip is also the perfect size for what I'm looking for in an EDC carry. One negative I've heard leveled at some Recons is that they were rattle traps open or closed. This one is not. There's a little button wiggle when closed, but that stops when you put your thumb on it. There is no blade wiggle when closed and no rattle when open. Blade wiggle on all three models when open are about the same.

However, there is one massive elephant in this room that nobody seems to mention. This thing is as slick as a bar of soap! It's curved nicely and the jimping on the side of the knife holds it fairly well, but there's nothing on the top and bottom. It's curved well and very ergonomic, but where there's jimping on the other two blades, there's nothing on the Recon. In addition, the aluminum s ides are rounded to the point that there's no sharp spots at all or any part where you can grip it. You also don't want to use this knife if your hands are wet because you'll either get no grip to activate the button, or like me, this knife is going to squirt out of your hand like a bar of soap. Since I was also outside when it squirted out of my hand, the sides of the rear now have had the anodizing rubbed off.

I would send this back, but I'm not sure Blade HQ would consider this in "Like New" condition and I'm not going to lie and say it came from the factory like this. They they do return it or even charge me a restocking fee, they'll get my business for life, but if not, then I'm buying a Talon Grip DIY sheet and covering as much as I can. It'll be the ugliest ghetto Recon-035 there is, but it won't slip out of my hands.

If I do try another one, it'll most likely be a Microtech Dirac as they are very plentiful, has multiple serrated options, and still under $320. A UTX-85 Stepside could also be a possibility, but I don't like that prices jump to $345 and up just to get a narrow stick of aluminum. Guardian Tactical is coming out with the Scout model that's a little narrower with Carbon Fiber inlays and also has an integrated glassbreaker, but it's $400 and over what I'm willing to pay for an EDC knife.

The biggest annoyance on this is I would really like to try out a Heretic Manticore E, but good luck finding them. EKnives has the older version for $310 that still looks just as slick as the Recon, and Heretic seems to have abandoned this end of the budget as the only newer knives available have the Fat Carbon scale that look amazing, but not $500 amazing. The Manticore S can still be found easily, but it's smaller than a UTX-85 and looks as slick as the Recon.

Anyone have any suggestions on what to look for?

Thanks to P220 Smudge for suggesting BladeHQ. I just got a return slip for both the Hogue and the Guardian Tactical! The only downside is the cheapest Heretic Manticore E they have is $550 and way out of my budget, but they do have an UTX-85 in Magnacut or a couple of Diracs in stock I might look into. Something this line of OTFs have made me realize is that as long as I have a sharp knife point, I don't need serrations which opens up more possibilities.

BHQ is excellent, and I haven't even dealt with them yet. I just continually hear happy customer experiences. Glad they worked out for you on this!

Your conundrum is one I can appreciate. I had the thought that you could pick up a cheapie used Ultratech and do a button swap, then sell it off. That would depend on how comfortable you are taking one apart and putting it back together, though.

As for the Hogue, I can't speak to that particular model, but their mechanism can't have changed all that much from the Hadron I bought. It's a decent knife, don't get me wrong, but I followed it up with an Ultratech and a Combat Troodon, and once I had a chance to mess around with those some, the Hogue went back in the box, and there it has stayed. I could elaborate, but I'm not going to. Hogue is a great company, and they'll stand behind their products like few others will, but their OTF knives are simply not on the same level that Microtech is. They just aren't.

The lack of grip on the Recon is something I've never noticed, nor seen mentioned, but that is probably enough to put me off of one. I was going to suggest you look at an Axial Shift until I read that and had another look at them, and they're the same story. My Ultratech isn't a frag pattern, but I've found it grippy enough. The Combat Troodon has much less aggressive jimping, and it teeters not not being grippy enough.

I've heard, and continue to hear great things about the Dirac, especially the Delta. I like big knives, and I may very well send my CT back to Microtech for a spa day and then sell it to pick up a Dirac Delta.

The other one that has me interested that could probably solve your grip problem is the Heretic Cleric II. The problem is, it's really freaking expensive in the few editions I can actually find in stock online, between $450-750. I don't think I'm gonna go into that ballpark on a pocket knife. I said the same thing about $100-200 knives, but I learned. I see a point of diminishing returns past that, though, and knives in the $500+ price range simply aren't in my budget. The Cleric II is an almost cartoonishly large OTF, but it intrigues me, especially in a tanto. Seen a few pop up used in nice shape in the low $200's, but they got snapped up fast.

I hope you find a winner, Dan. Keep us posted, I'm interested in your findings.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Your conundrum is one I can appreciate. I had the thought that you could pick up a cheapie used Ultratech and do a button swap, then sell it off. That would depend on how comfortable you are taking one apart and putting it back together, though.

I have one more round of buys before I give up and either ask Microtech to either install a standard button or at least knock of the edges off the sides of the switch. The texture on the top of the button, while a little uncomfortable, are doable, but if my thumb slides off to the left or right side the corner scratch into my thumb.

quote:

As for the Hogue, I can't speak to that particular model, but their mechanism can't have changed all that much from the Hadron I bought. It's a decent knife, don't get me wrong, but I followed it up with an Ultratech and a Combat Troodon, and once I had a chance to mess around with those some, the Hogue went back in the box, and there it has stayed. I could elaborate, but I'm not going to. Hogue is a great company, and they'll stand behind their products like few others will, but their OTF knives are simply not on the same level that Microtech is. They just aren't.

To the Hogue's credit, this is their newest OTF. I looked at their HK lineup online and was not impressed with any of them. They looked more ergonomic that the Microtechs, but 154CM will not cut it at the price Hogue wants for it, and the only part that look the same are the switch on the Hadron and Counterstrike is the switch. The action doesn't fire as hard as my Sith Lord and you won't get the same blade varieties and optional serrations with the Hogue, but the fit and finish of the Counterstrike does equal the base Ultratech.

The Exploit and the Compound look interesting, but I'm not sure about paying over $300 for S30V and they look to be somewhere in between the Ultratech and Combat Troodon in size which is flat too big.

quote:

The lack of grip on the Recon is something I've never noticed, nor seen mentioned, but that is probably enough to put me off of one. I was going to suggest you look at an Axial Shift until I read that and had another look at them, and they're the same story. My Ultratech isn't a frag pattern, but I've found it grippy enough. The Combat Troodon has much less aggressive jimping, and it teeters not not being grippy enough.

Neither have I. The more knives I've handled, the more it seems for my grip, the jimping on the sides is more important that the scales if that makes any sense. I haven't looked much at the Axial knives since they're sold out on their website, and if I was Microtech I'd be upset with them cloning the Exocet with the Spike. The Ultratech has been around long enough for patents to run out, but the Axial Spike doesn't pretend to be anything else.

quote:

I've heard, and continue to hear great things about the Dirac, especially the Delta. I like big knives, and I may very well send my CT back to Microtech for a spa day and then sell it to pick up a Dirac Delta.

The Delta is priced a little too high and is a little too big for my EDC, but the Dirac seems to do the side button action far better than the Benchmade Infidel. There's no way I'm paying almost $500 for a rattletrap knife using D2 steel. The Shootout is a little cheaper, but $300 for whatever Benchmade calls fancy plastic? Nope.

quote:

The other one that has me interested that could probably solve your grip problem is the Heretic Cleric II. The problem is, it's really freaking expensive in the few editions I can actually find in stock online, between $450-750. I don't think I'm gonna go into that ballpark on a pocket knife. I said the same thing about $100-200 knives, but I learned. I see a point of diminishing returns past that, though, and knives in the $500+ price range simply aren't in my budget. The Cleric II is an almost cartoonishly large OTF, but it intrigues me, especially in a tanto. Seen a few pop up used in nice shape in the low $200's, but they got snapped up fast.

At least Heretic knows is a joke because they also make one with a 10" blade. I have found a couple of older Heretic Manticore Es that use Elmax around $300. It seems to be what I'm looking for with jimping in the right places and an integrated glass breaker that won't stab me. If the Recon-035 gets updated to be a smaller version of the Recon-040 then it would probably be perfect.

quote:

I hope you find a winner, Dan. Keep us posted, I'm interested in your findings.

It looks like it'll be between a Dirac, the BladeHQ UTX-85, Axial Shift, or a Heretic Manticore E. If none of those work, it looks like I'll be asking Microtech help me with my button.

Edit: Also left out the Kershaw Livewire. BladeHQ has a special edition Ultem Livewire in Magnacut incoming for about $280.

You hit it on the head DanH about the button...


I thought I’d have to take my thumb to the gym to build it up!

Thumb strength isn't the problem, but I'd probably need to do some kung fu stuff to kill all the nerves in the pad of my thumb.

Does anyone have any experience with the Heretic Manticore S or E (not the X). The E seems to be Ultratech size while the S seems to be somewhere between a UTX 75 and 85.

Z06, that's a looker of an Ultratech! I like the gray frag pattern with the mirror polish blade. Neither of those are an easy find!

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
I have one more round of buys before I give up and either ask Microtech to either install a standard button or at least knock of the edges off the sides of the switch. The texture on the top of the button, while a little uncomfortable, are doable, but if my thumb slides off to the left or right side the corner scratch into my thumb.

I've heard good things about their customer service, especially in recent years. QC since COVID has dropped off a little, but they take care of customers. I know that they will not replace a blade on a knife with anything other than what it left the factory with, blade steel notwithstanding, as in - if it's a full serrated stonewash tanto, they will only replace it with another full serrated stonewash tanto. I haven't heard or seen anything about buttons, though. I'm guessing they'll help you out, though.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
To the Hogue's credit, this is their newest OTF. I looked at their HK lineup online and was not impressed with any of them. They looked more ergonomic that the Microtechs, but 154CM will not cut it at the price Hogue wants for it, and the only part that look the same are the switch on the Hadron and Counterstrike is the switch. The action doesn't fire as hard as my Sith Lord and you won't get the same blade varieties and optional serrations with the Hogue, but the fit and finish of the Counterstrike does equal the base Ultratech. The Exploit and the Compound look interesting, but I'm not sure about paying over $300 for S30V and they look to be somewhere in between the Ultratech and Combat Troodon in size which is flat too big.

Yeah, so when Hogue first came out with their OTF's, they were competitively priced. I wanna say they were in the $150ish range, which... all things considered, I think that's right about where they should be. About a year and a half, maybe two years ago, their prices went up a lot. 154CM and S30V were premium blade steels a decade ago. Now? Fairly standard, and charging premium prices for them doesn't make me want to buy. If I hadn't found mine used for what I paid, I would've gone with something else. I like their switch design - it's just the right size, and you can easily get positive engagement on it, but the action on my Ultratech is both smoother, and fires harder than the Hogue. Bottom line for me is that if they ran a hundred bucks cheaper, they'd be a lot more competitive with Microtech, but over $200 is getting into NIB second hand Microtech prices, and they just don't compete. I got my Ultratech for $200, shipped, and it was NIB. The Counterstrike looks interesting, and I think at the price they're asking, if they can sort out the nonsense with the glass breaker, they'll be a lot more competitive with Microtech. CPM 20CV looks to be very comparable to M390, and harder to sharpen than Elmax, but also more corrosion resistant from what I'm looking at. That's a good offering in a blade steel, especially since they're gunning for the Ultratech.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
Neither have I. The more knives I've handled, the more it seems for my grip, the jimping on the sides is more important that the scales if that makes any sense.

No, I agree. That's where I get nearly all of my grip on the Ultratech. The flats are smooth and it doesn't bother me, but if the sides didn't have the jimping, it would be a no-go.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
There's no way I'm paying almost $500 for a rattletrap knife using D2 steel. The Shootout is a little cheaper, but $300 for whatever Benchmade calls fancy plastic? Nope.

Well, and Benchmade can KMA anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
I have found a couple of older Heretic Manticore Es that use Elmax around $300. It seems to be what I'm looking for with jimping in the right places and an integrated glass breaker that won't stab me. If the Recon-035 gets updated to be a smaller version of the Recon-040 then it would probably be perfect.

You know Heretic is Tony Marfione's kid, right? He took everything he learned quite literally growing up at Microtech and put his own spin on it. I think a number of his designs are the perfected versions of the original Microtechs. I hope you can find an E you're happy with. As much as I like my two Microtechs, I also love rotating stuff in an out to try new things and I could easily see myself just as pleased, if not happier with a Manticore, either an E or an X.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
BladeHQ has a special edition Ultem Livewire in Magnacut incoming for about $280.

I tend to forget about Kershaw when I think of OTF's. I'm looking forward to your feedback on that one. A few years ago, Jade/Natural G10 was the trend, this year it's Ultem. Neat material.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
The Counterstrike looks interesting, and I think at the price they're asking, if they can sort out the nonsense with the glass breaker, they'll be a lot more competitive with Microtech. CPM 20CV looks to be very comparable to M390, and harder to sharpen than Elmax, but also more corrosion resistant from what I'm looking at. That's a good offering in a blade steel, especially since they're gunning for the Ultratech.

quote:

No, I agree. That's where I get nearly all of my grip on the Ultratech. The flats are smooth and it doesn't bother me, but if the sides didn't have the jimping, it would be a no-go.

[QUOTE]You know Heretic is Tony Marfione's kid, right? He took everything he learned quite literally growing up at Microtech and put his own spin on it. I think a number of his designs are the perfected versions of the original Microtechs. I hope you can find an E you're happy with. As much as I like my two Microtechs, I also love rotating stuff in an out to try new things and I could easily see myself just as pleased, if not happier with a Manticore, either an E or an X.

Yep. That was one I was looking at that I considered "Marfione Adjacent." I just wish TJ Marfione would stop making the Colossus and focus on Manticores. You can barely find any of them, but you can get a Colossus in almost any color you want in stock.

quote:

I tend to forget about Kershaw when I think of OTF's. I'm looking forward to your feedback on that one. A few years ago, Jade/Natural G10 was the trend, this year it's Ultem. Neat material.

Not sure when it'll come out, though. I went ahead and ordered this Manticore E from EKnives:

https://eknives.com/heretic-kn...eworn-black-h029-8a/

It's an older one using Elmax instead of the current ones on Magnacut, but good luck trying to find one. I sure haven't, and I've only found 4 Manticore X base models on the entire internet.

Hopefully this will be it.

Microtech's Hera is their easiest-to-operate action. By a good margin. I'd like to have one, but I have several MTs already, and I really have no need for another OTF of medium size.

But check out a Hera, if you are still shopping.

The Heretic Manticore E I ordered from EKnives came in on Friday.






The biggest difficulty in my brain in regards to the sizes of the Manticore vs Ultratechs have to do with the glass breaker. According to most measurements, the Heretic has a 4.7" handle while the Ultratech has a 5" handle, but the Heretic has a usable handle from beginning to end while depending on who measures it the Ultratech has the same useable handle length PLUS the glass breaker. If Heretic was able to produce more product, it probably wouldn't be much of an issue.

While this is from a previous production run using Elmax (current ones use Magnacut on all models), there's still a lot to like about this knife at the $300 range. While the button has an aggressive texture on it, it's made of G10 instead of aluminum and is much wider than the Ultratech. It's unlikely your thumb will slide off and get bit on the rough edges on the side of the button. While not as smooth as the Guardian Tactical Recon, this Manticore does have the switch riding on ball bearing, but there's no steel plate. The switch still rides on the aluminum chassis. To get a Microtech that's as smooth as this one, you have to spend $100-150 more on a Hera, and besides that titanium pocket clip, I'm not seeing where the extra money on the Hera is going.

In fact, the only things about this Manticore I don't like are all mamby-pamby crybaby nitpicking. The drop point on this knife is the best drop point I've used in a long time compared to a Ken Onion designed ZT flipper or the Benchmade Auto Triage that had too much belly on the blade to poke through small bags. However, I would prefer a dagger or bayonet cut OTF since the blade retracts completely in the handle and I get two cutting edges for the price on one. The other bit of versatility the dagger provides is I can have one straight edge and one serrated edge for the best of both worlds. Heretic says they offer those options on their site, but good luck trying to find them.

In probably the most worthless of all my complaints is the knife is just soulless. Microtech knows how to have fun while making sure that while you may not find the exact combination you're looking for, you'll get very close. This knife is a lump of ho-hum with a basic black handle. There's no personality or fun to the knife. I'm not sure I'm going to keep it, but as of right now, it's the best knife I've tried.

If I do another knife, it'll be a UTX-85 or Dirac. Both of those are very much my preferred size of knife, and I can find double edge versions of all of them as far as the eye can see.

IMO the 85 feels really quite small. Not sure if it’s the slim handle and lack of texturing that makes it that way. You should also check out the Boker/Hogue at PVK. They have a much more realistic price on it for a 154 blade.

https://www.pvk.com/Boker-Plus...ck-p/bok-06ex263.htm

I also have a ticket pending with Microtech. I'm waiting to hear back from them if they'll do something about the switch of the Sith Lord.