quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
It's a boat mate position on a SWCC Boat - not a Field Operator.

Right. For those wondering, Special Warfare Combatant Craft (SWCC) crews are the ones manning the smaller boats that insert and extract SEALs and other special operations units in shallow water areas.

They're still Naval Special Warfare troops, but their training isn't quite as intense as the SEALs. (They don't go through BUD/S.) Their mission is more narrowly focused. They are support/recon units that rarely engage in direct action.

If you've seen the movie Act of Valor, the gunboat extraction scene on the river features SWCC crewmen in a "Special Operations Craft - Riverine" (SOC-R). SWCCs also operate several other types of go-fast boats.

quote:

Originally posted by msfzoe:
Wasn't G I Jane the first female SEAL?

Yea, I'm sure the Navy can bring in Demi Moore as a consultant.

Yeah, but as Mom woulda' asked "can she cook?!?".

GGF

This PC horse shit is going to get good men killed, and if it happens on a mission, the whole operation may be screwed.

Stay the fuck out of the way and let the men do the job. Stop trying to prove that you're the equal of men in this respect. Just stop it. No one cares except your mommy.

Imagine if one of these women gets taken captive. THEN, the PC crowd may begin to move into the general vicinity of a clue.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:

I love watching ANW with my family and think they do an outstanding job with having the same course male or female. Apples/Oranges with elite military units though. #1, you are just using your own body weight (not carrying heavy loads) so that is a serious advantage for a lighter female. Even so, the number of women who have completed any ANW course is still single digits...after 9 years?

I was thinking/saying the same thing. Until a MARSOC buddy said to me, "see how they do with no sleep, no nutrition, no rest. It will be a different ballgame when their body's have to do the same without any fuel".

A buddy of mine is in NSW told me once "All that stuff is the same thing we do. After we have been up for four days, hiked 70 miles, ate very little, and are hanging off the side of a cliff".

Jljones

Boy I wish this site had a "like" or "agree" button.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
This PC horse shit is going to get good men killed, and if it happens on a mission, the whole operation may be screwed.

Stay the fuck out of the way and let the men do the job. Stop trying to prove that you're the equal of men in this respect. Just stop it. No one cares except your mommy.

Imagine if one of these women gets taken captive. THEN, the PC crowd may begin to move into the general vicinity of a clue.

It will get some good women killed too.

One of the realizations I experienced in reading The Complete Story of Civilization was that the conditions, habits, culture that prevail at the start of a man's life very rarely are the same near the end of a normal life span. The old men bitch and moan how the world is going to hell. Sometimes they are right, of course.

The mission profiles are often different, but SAS does clandestine missions which involve females in the role of wives. Maybe Rhonda Rambo won't be sneaking around the jungle with a knife in her teeth, but infiltrating in situations more aligned with traditional mission profiles, gathering intel, sneaking around watching.

Demi Moore was hot in this movie.

Look, Abu, is that a camel's nose?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
This PC horse shit is going to get good men killed, and if it happens on a mission, the whole operation may be screwed.

Stay the fuck out of the way and let the men do the job. Stop trying to prove that you're the equal of men in this respect. Just stop it. No one cares except your mommy.

Imagine if one of these women gets taken captive. THEN, the PC crowd may begin to move into the general vicinity of a clue.

How is this any different than a woman on a battlefield in any role? She could be a truck driver and be captured, raped, killed, etc. About 200 women have lost their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. If what you're saying is true, the last decade of warfare in a region exceptionally hostile to women would have produced many examples.

quote:

Originally posted by caneau:

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:

quote:

Originally posted by caneau:
Great news so long as the standards are the same (and from everything I've heard, it sounds like they are).

The first female could be a male and he would only be required to meet the standards set for females.

From the article posted above:

"It's possible, however, that the first female member of these elite communities will come not from the outside, but from within. In October, a SWCC petty officer notified their chain-of-command that they identified as being transgender, Salata confirmed to Military.com

According to Navy policy guidance released last fall, a sailor must receive a doctor's diagnosis of medical necessity and command approval to begin the gender transition process, which can take a variety of different forms, from counseling and hormone therapy to surgery. Sailors must also prove they can pass the physical standards and requirements of the gender to which they are transitioning."

All the more reasons the standards should be the same!

As for the body weight issue, it's not an issue. There are 110 lbs. males and 170 lbs. females that are all muscle. We're not talking about the "average male: or the "average female." This is the top whatever fraction of a percentage of athletes in already physically-selective organizations.

Statistically speaking, most female performance at the elite levels is only a hair behind men. Here's a great article as to why: https://www.theatlantic.com/te...t-theyre-not/260927/
If you look at something like marathon times, the female times start at ~20th fastest time ever.

What does that mean in this case -- will a woman ever post the best "score" in one of these elite special warfare schools? Probably not. Will a few pass? Yeah, almost certainly.

Female performance at elite levels is not just a hair behind men. Men absolutely crush women in every activity when you compare top performers. In the article it points out that the best women perform at about 90 percent of the capability of the best men. That is an enormous differenece.

quote:

Originally posted by IHooah:

quote:

Originally posted by caneau:

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:

quote:

Originally posted by caneau:
Great news so long as the standards are the same (and from everything I've heard, it sounds like they are).

The first female could be a male and he would only be required to meet the standards set for females.

From the article posted above:

"It's possible, however, that the first female member of these elite communities will come not from the outside, but from within. In October, a SWCC petty officer notified their chain-of-command that they identified as being transgender, Salata confirmed to Military.com

According to Navy policy guidance released last fall, a sailor must receive a doctor's diagnosis of medical necessity and command approval to begin the gender transition process, which can take a variety of different forms, from counseling and hormone therapy to surgery. Sailors must also prove they can pass the physical standards and requirements of the gender to which they are transitioning."

All the more reasons the standards should be the same!

As for the body weight issue, it's not an issue. There are 110 lbs. males and 170 lbs. females that are all muscle. We're not talking about the "average male: or the "average female." This is the top whatever fraction of a percentage of athletes in already physically-selective organizations.

Statistically speaking, most female performance at the elite levels is only a hair behind men. Here's a great article as to why: https://www.theatlantic.com/te...t-theyre-not/260927/
If you look at something like marathon times, the female times start at ~20th fastest time ever.

What does that mean in this case -- will a woman ever post the best "score" in one of these elite special warfare schools? Probably not. Will a few pass? Yeah, almost certainly.

Female performance at elite levels is not just a hair behind men. Men absolutely crush women in every activity when you compare top performers. In the article it points out that the best women perform at about 90 percent of the capability of the best men. That is an enormous differenece.

Yep. In High School I ran cross country, and was never better than top of the "B" team. The boys "A" team left me in the dust. But during meets, I ran right with the girls "A" team, staring at their asses the whole time.

Whenever you hear about women's "success" in combat, a large part of that is due to the military's brass saying it was a success, regardless. You don't hear about the unusually high percentage of female troops who seem to get pregnant right before a deployment, or the extra burden on the male troops. I have been there and have personally had to reallocate squad gear to accommodate the females. Males got their gear plus a Prc77, or a M60, or claymores. The females were only carrying their personal gear, and sometimes even that had to be reallocated to males.

Don't get too caught up in how things worked in Iraq. Fighting the last war has been many a general's folly. If we ever have a war that doesn't involve riding to battle, the deficiencies in female participation will be more apparent.

quote:

Originally posted by IHooah:

quote:

Originally posted by caneau:

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:

quote:

Originally posted by caneau:
Great news so long as the standards are the same (and from everything I've heard, it sounds like they are).

The first female could be a male and he would only be required to meet the standards set for females.

From the article posted above:

"It's possible, however, that the first female member of these elite communities will come not from the outside, but from within. In October, a SWCC petty officer notified their chain-of-command that they identified as being transgender, Salata confirmed to Military.com

According to Navy policy guidance released last fall, a sailor must receive a doctor's diagnosis of medical necessity and command approval to begin the gender transition process, which can take a variety of different forms, from counseling and hormone therapy to surgery. Sailors must also prove they can pass the physical standards and requirements of the gender to which they are transitioning."

All the more reasons the standards should be the same!

As for the body weight issue, it's not an issue. There are 110 lbs. males and 170 lbs. females that are all muscle. We're not talking about the "average male: or the "average female." This is the top whatever fraction of a percentage of athletes in already physically-selective organizations.

Statistically speaking, most female performance at the elite levels is only a hair behind men. Here's a great article as to why: https://www.theatlantic.com/te...t-theyre-not/260927/
If you look at something like marathon times, the female times start at ~20th fastest time ever.

What does that mean in this case -- will a woman ever post the best "score" in one of these elite special warfare schools? Probably not. Will a few pass? Yeah, almost certainly.

Female performance at elite levels is not just a hair behind men. Men absolutely crush women in every activity when you compare top performers. In the article it points out that the best women perform at about 90 percent of the capability of the best men. That is an enormous differenece.

Which is plenty good enough for women to qualify for special forces. And 15 minutes behind on a marathon or half a second behind at 100m is not "crushing". I doubt single person on this forum could complete with the elite female athletes of any given Olympic sport. Any special forces program is way less selective than an Olympic or World Championship podium for athletic events.

Tell me why women must be there. It's indescribably ridiculous that we're having to deal with this stupid fucking shit AT ALL.

I don't give a rat's ass about women trying to "break glass ceilings". That shit makes me want to puke.

Just stay out of the way and let the men do the fighting, unless you gals want to make it an all-female armed forces, since you're such hard-charging badasses in the main, huh? Fucking ridiculous. It really is.

Wow, so much wrong comparing the olympics to SF.

Such as?

We posted at the same time. Corrected wording.

quote:

Which is plenty good enough for women to qualify for special forces. And 15 minutes behind on a marathon or half a second behind at 100m is not "crushing". I doubt single person on this forum could complete with the elite female athletes of any given Olympic sport. Any special forces program is way less selective than an Olympic or World Championship podium for athletic events.

From what I have been told and observed, the Special Forces are not interested in elite performance as long as you exceed the standard. What they are interested in is tenacity, never willing to quit in the face of misery, fear, discouragement, etc.

You must be able to move quickly, quietly at some speed, of course.

Almost every evolution at BUD/S is designed to make it easy for you to quit, if you are of a mind to do so. The ones who don't continue.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: JALLEN,

I'm sure there will be a few women who are able to complete BUD/S...however, they don't get their Trident until they've gotten through the year-long trail period with the teams. In which case, sure you survived the endurance portion of the test, now can you learn, get along and fit-in with everyone.

I can see a few more gals making it into SWCC but, their time will be short as their bodies change and the physical toll adds up. While their mission isn't as physically intense as SEALs, what they do have to deal with is a lot of crew served weapons work, engine problem solving and comms. Like the guys, it's a young persons world, the physical pounding from bouncing on the waves, to all the heavy lifting will take its toll, maybe more so considering body physiology.

PC Bullshit, sorry no matter how hard you try you can't legislate reality.