I'd really like to have 1-200 acres in South or East Texas somewhere that the family could go on long weekends, get outdoors, hunt, etc. But it wouldn't be like we could get out there every weekend. Let's say 10-12 times a year. So I thought about having someone live on the property, potentially put it to some productive use, guide hunts, run cattle, whatever, so long as it's available for our use, and we split whatever proceeds in a fair manner.

Is this a thing? Has anyone done something like this? How would you arrange it?

I've seen it done in Oklahoma, Woodward area to be exact.

The trick is coordinating with, and trusting, the tenet in the event they want to hunt also. Personal observation says nothing sucks more than to be there opening morning and the tenet's "friends" show up, with rifles, because they know "the owner" who gave them written permission to be there. And of course, the "owner" (your tenet) is at the opposite corner of the section, without cell service.

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
I've seen it done in Oklahoma, Woodward area to be exact.

The trick is coordinating with, and trusting, the tenet in the event they want to hunt also. Personal observation says nothing sucks more than to be there opening morning and the tenet's "friends" show up, with rifles, because they know "the owner" who gave them written permission to be there.

I can see that being an issue. Being only an aspiring hunter myself, I'd ideally be looking a tenant who could be trusted and also provide some guidance on such things.

quote:

Originally posted by Dallas239:
Being only an aspiring hunter myself, I'd ideally be looking a tenant who could be trusted and also provide some guidance on such things.

This is just me, but I think I'd try to find someone originally from Texas/Oklahoma/Midwest who is retiring out of the military after 20 years and looking for something to do.

I'm not certain, but my guess is that the military has an outplacement program for the people I've described above. Perhaps you could make inquiries at a local military installation.

A private hunting estate with a dedicated resident groundskeeper/gamekeeper?

How very ostentatiously aristocratic of you.

*sniff* "I say, Jeeves... Do send word to my southern estate to prepare the horses and hounds. I fancy a hunt, and shall arrive on the morrow."

^^^^^^^
I think we may safely assume a higher income bracket than us commoners.

To answer the question, I have seen similar things in South Louisiana. As someone explained to me years ago, you know the rich people got the homes on the beach, and the poor people live behind them so they can take care of the house.

Most common way to lease hunting in Texas is to lease hunting rights from a rancher. It can be for designated game and time period. Rancher takes general care raises cattle, etc.

My lease is year round, deer,turkey, doves, quail, feral pigs, javalina. Coyotes, bobcats, etc are also available for predator hunting. Been on this lease for 20+ years. Rancher leases to me and lets me sub lease to 4 or 5 additional expecting me to have responsible hunters. Has worked well for me as he has only raised price one time.

Previous leases other ranchers wanted each hunter to sign lease contract. I have always had it for mutual agreed hunters who were responsible or we would uninvite those who did not agree to out rules on safety, guest privileges, etc.

Here in Colorado, one of the many remote mountain trail systems we used to 4 wheel on when our family/ friends owned ATVs was on public land, but a portion of one of the trails skirted along a large tract of ranch land. The owner had a working cattle ranch but lived elsewhere and would come out to relax at the ranch a few times a year. They hired a care/taker who lived on the property in a house provided, and he handled all the maintenance and livestock chores. I don't know if they allowed hunting on the private property, I suspect they did, but the surrounding public land was certainly known to hunters and hunted.

I've heard of other such operations like this that, in addition to working ranches, would allow limited private hunts, and some charged fairly princely sums for out-of-staters (often Texans) to come in for private hunts.

I have one friend who, after he married a single mom, left the restaurant/ bar business, moved back to Montana where one of his uncles had a working bird ranch, that raised exotic birds for sale to zoos, parks, or private estates, however the uncle didn't live on the ranch but would visit it occasionally. My friend and his new family lived on the property in a guest house and managed the operation and handled all the related maintenance and chores. In their down time they would hunt the property themselves, although I don't know if they allowed others to hunt it.

A bit different than what you propose, but one of the very large public game areas we used to hunt in the mountains was a combination of National Forest (NF) and State Wildlife Area (SWA) with a decent sized reservoir on it. In the Spring/ Summer/ Early Fall months the NF/ SWA would allow nearby ranchers to drive their cattle into the higher elevations where they would graze, I'm guessing by lease or for some fee by permit. However the ranchers were required to drive their cattle back down to their ranches at the lower elevations by a certain specified date before the earliest hunting season began. There were private outfitter guides who, again by permit, would bring in their hunting parties and hunt the area by horse back.

I also have a friend in Virginia and he and his brother specialize in old historic home/ mansion high end construction/ remodel/ maintenance/ repair type work for very high end customers who own old private estates and horse farms. The owners frequently live elsewhere and either return to the state briefly to meet with the various contract crews about work they want done, speak with them by phone, or, often, they deal with the caretaker/ manager who lives on the property. In that case I'm guessing they don't allow hunting, although the area has a long history of fox hunting from horseback.

I have a friend who is from South East Texas, no longer lives there, but has talked about returning. He is an avid all out hunter, both while he lived in Texas and in Colorado, and has long dreamed about being a hunting guide. (He owns his own hunting guide tent and has bought so many thousands of dollars of hunting gear from Cabela's that they used to send him their premium hard cover catalog for free when they normally charged customers for the expensive version) I don't know how much experience he has with cattle, but he and his ex used to own and ride horses and he knows his way around them...heck, I've sometimes thought about looking for a caretaker job myself.

We had a Mexican ranchhand named Nacho (true story) who lived at our Deer Camp in West Texas. He was employed by the rancher, who owned about 50,000 acres, 5,000 of which we leased. He handled basic maintenance, if needed, to the associated Camp House, fencing, gates, etc.

I know another man, white man, semi-retired, former rancher himself, now the live-on caretaker of a swanky ranch property in Colorado that's near my spot out there which belongs to some out of state folks. I've seen this and similar variations all over Colorado and the Southwestern US / Mountains.

Sometimes a neighbor, sometimes live-on, sometimes a student or retired person, all context dependent.

There is a farm near me that is kind of like this. The owner doesn't live there, the tenant/care taker runs the property and the owner and guests, some of which are very well to do hurt said property.

It's a largish farm. That rises cattle, corn, vegetables, some horses.

The plot of land, which is several hundred acres across the road from the main farm, is used for mostly for hunting. They put in crops to attract doves, and deer. Large fields and timber.

The place turns a profit every year. You can buy "shears " in beef, and vegetables. As in you pay a certain amount and you are able to get beef and fresh vegetables in season.

I'm not up to how it is done. I just know a guy that is a "farm hand ".


So, it's a thing.


ARman

About a quarter of the counties in Iowa have timber land for sale in them.

There are many owners that will rent out their timber ground to hunters, THat They Know Personally.

They get people from 2 dozen other states for deer .

There are very very few who would trust a third person to "manage"
Their 25 - 125 acres.

( I don't know one )
Poaching, rampant Trespassing, illegal grow ops . And meth labs are spoiling it for a lot of people.

A guy from Chicago purchased 230 acres, to hunt on and thought that he and his business clients would enjoy, he hired a " manager" .

The guy ( manager) sold 150 old growth oak and walnut trees to a bunch of crooked
Allegedly mobbed up guys and then split with the cash, ( estimated between $70,000.00 and $150,000.00)

There are no where near enough D.N.R. or county sheriff's officer's to manage the amount of B.S., in Iowa ,anyway.

Wish you the best of luck,but up here it's one headache after another,

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bendable,

Maybe I'm not the trusting type, but ISTM that it would be way too likely for your caretaker to turn your "hunting estate" into his "pot farm."

If you live in the DFW area you should look in SE Oklahoma. The land will be significantly cheaper (you can get a bigger place for the same money), you will have 4 seasons, and it will be closer than S. Texas.

As for the other arrangements, that depends on what you are really trying to accomplish. Having someone live there and run hunts for profit is not going to net much income on 100-200 acres and day hunting will put a lot of pressure on your herd. Running enough cattle on 100-200 acres to make any money will likewise compromise the hunting. Cows are hard on feeders and blinds and always seem to come waltzing in to bump that nice buck out of the area when you are sitting in your stand.

If you want the security of having someone around full time you will basically have to take on a tenant and now you are managing a rental property. If you want someone to help defray the cost of the land you could lease a hunting spot or two depending on the size of the property.

Any way you slice it, you are not going to get more than a couple of thousand dollars a year max from any of these scenarios and all will have more than a little impact on your ability to enjoy the land you own. Bottom line, if you can afford it just buy it and use it for you family and friends to enjoy.

What bendable said. You either own land you take care of and hunt, rent hunting rights, are related to someone who lets you hunt in their land, or are friends with someone who lets you hunt on your land. That's the order in exclusivity and expense.

I've never hunted in Iowa a day in my life, I don't own land and the drama of renting it "knowing someone" isn't worth it. I hunt my aunt and uncle's land in Missouri with a nonresident tag, which is far cheaper than hunting rent.

Once I was involved in a protracted lawsuit breaking up a "partnership" of a city landowner and a guy he had farm the land. Nothing was agreed to on paper but they had been splitting the farm income. Problem is, the Tennant farmer would use all the equipment on his farm, running up hours, then there was disputes as to who owned want, which livestock was owned by who.

Not a hunter, but I do know someone who owns rural acreage that gets hunted on.

Ownership of that land has a hassle factor that varies with the year/season - hassles which have included idiots repeatedly using the land for a dump. Which caused the owner getting flak from the county as having a potential toxic waste site, and getting forced to pay someone to clean it up. And, of course, no way to prevent recurrence as a public road runs through it.

If it were me, a lease would be the way I'd go. No legal liability for any accidents, no exposure to surprise land ownership costs.

Buying land and hiring a caretaker/ manager or finding a tenant to maintain it is an option, but just to offer an alternative...

... I haven't checked recently, but I know that, at least at one time, the CPW would, selectively, lease tracts of private land along rivers for licensed anglers to fish, as I used to fish one such stretch. I think the same idea was applied to some tracts of hunting land in which licensed hunters were allowed to hunt private land. In the hunting scenario, the number of hunters were limited by the number of permits issued for each of the hunting seasons, both to manage the harvest numbers as well as limit the over crowding potential by hunters.

I know that Texas is more permissive than many states when it comes to hunting, with fewer restrictions in place, and I'm not sure if Texas or other states' wildlife department management have similar programs in which private land is leased for limited public hunting, but perhaps that is an option to consider.

Listen to what wxl told you if you're interested in Texas and ignore what guys are telling you about Iowa or some other state. Hunting leases are a common way to gain access to hunting land in the state. My friend north of Uvalde has leased land to hunters for deer, pigs, and exotics for many years. When he didn't like the conduct of a leasing party (inviting too many hunters) he booted them and found another party in a few weeks. It seems to be a well-established enterprise in Texas.

Yes leasing is very common but the economics of leasing a small acreage tract are not favorable compared to the price of buying, as a land owner anyway. On the high side you might be able to get $5,000 a year for an annual lease to two hunters ($2,500 each). That assumes exclusive hunting rights to the two hunters, not showing up yourself during prime weekends to hunt. Anyone paying this amount would expect a land owner to place little to no pressure on the land from September through mid January.

Given all of that, perhaps you lease to one person and you are the second hunter on your 200 acres. Given that 200 acres will cost between $2,500 and $10,000 an acre the money from one lease hunter won't pay your taxes.

I have leased hunting property in Texas for many years and have looked at all of the possible scenarios as having access to recreational property is important to me. For what land cost to buy, and what you can lease it for it just doesn't work if you also want to use your land anytime you want. If someone pays you for deer hunting they will be pissed if you are out there shooting, riding, playing, etc.. for half the year.

Not Texas but Montana. We have several well heeled out of State absentee owners who have hunting property nearby.

They own large tracts of land and have Ranch Managers, etc. Most run cattle or grow crops of some type, even if it's just hay.

Some times this works out. They show up in October to hunt, shoot their deer and elk and go home. But more likely much of their game is poached out by road hunters or trespassers. The attitude towards out of state owners, especially RICH ones, is pretty negative by the locals. Many strive to screw them over. I recall some locals who snuck on a property and tipped over 3 nice bull elk. The day before the owner and his boys showed up to hunt. They bragged about it ,which lead to some issues with trespassing, hunting without permission with the Fish & Game and so forth. The owner paid taxes, wages for a year only to have a lousy hunting season.

I've seen a few of these scenarios work, only because they had the right guy staying there 24/7/365. Someone who is honest and loyal to the owners...tough to find.

I think the right caretaker and neighbors would be the key here.

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:
They own large tracts of land and have Ranch Managers, etc. Most run cattle or grow crops of some type, even if it's just hay.

I don't know if it is the same in Montana, but in Texas the main reason so many recreational ranch owners run some cattle or grow something is that then they can get a HUGE break on their property taxes - property taxes are then based on potential profitability of agricultural use in the area rather than actual property values.

In some of the high property value, less agriculturally productive areas of Texas, some recreational ranchers end up paying something like 2% or 3% of what their property taxes would be without the ag exemption. They might get taxed on a $100/acre agricultural productivity value rather than a $5,000/acre actual property value.

Despite its use by recreational ranch owners, the ag exemption came about in Texas to protect actual farmers and ranchers - the fear was that a bunch of rich city people would move into an area and buy up farm and ranch land and drive up property values until the farmers and ranchers who were left couldn't possibly afford their property taxes. In many areas, that would ABSOLUTELY be true without the ag exemption.