Okay - I sent back the made in PRC enameled Lodge dutch oven and received the regular cast iron oven (5qt). I seasoned it once.

I'm ready to try making the no knead bread now. Question: any recommendation on what brand flour to use? They say there is no difference between using general purpose and bread flour (not sure what the difference is) or regular and fast acting yeast.

Any recommendations on flour (brand and/or type)? Or yeast? I'm heading to the market now.....

I usually like sweet French (soft inside, crisp outside).

Bread flour has more protein and generates more gluten which makes the finished product denser and chewier.

For normal grocery store flour for breadmaking I like King Arthur unbleached all-purpose flour. This is actually a higher-protein flour than most all-purpose flours and other brands might call it a bread flour.

There are companies out there that produce a more expensive product from this or that heirloom wheat variety or whatever. Some bakeries swear by them. One of the most famous bakeries in the United States is Tartine in San Francisco, and in the cookbook Tartine Bread, the baker talks a lot about how important the flour is. This comes up in a couple other really high-end bakery bread cookbooks I have, too.

With that said, I have made plenty of super-delicious bread with King Arthur flour.

I suscribe to Cook's Illustrated and they recommend having a high-protein AP flour and a moderate-protein AP flour for different tasks and like King Arthur for the high-protein flour (at 11.7% protein) and Gold Medal for moderate-protein (at 10.5% protein).

For a rustic, chewy, no-knead bread I think you want the higher protein.

I see people recommend White Lily flour fairly often... the basic White Lily AP flour is super low-protein (I see varying reports of 8-9% protein), which is great if you're trying for very light, delicate baked goods (like fluffy biscuits) but not what you want for bread with a decent chew to it.

Here is a chart, I did a quick search for yeast conversions. They should all work fine.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iDA...p-nu/Yeast+Chart.jpg

It's best to keep the yeast separate from salt at the beginning.

Oh, and because I missed it, the difference between regular and fast-acting yeast is that with regular yeast you're supposed to mix it in some warm (not hot) water and let it "bloom" for a while (get fizzy) before you mix it in to the dough.

Instant/rapid-rise/fast-acting yeast can just be mixed straight into the dough dry.

I've been using SAF yeast for no real reason besides it seems to be what a lot of bakeries use and a 1-pound bag that will last a year in the fridge seems like a better deal than a bunch of little envelopes. I think any kind is fine, just make sure it isn't way past its date or you may end up with something like a hockey puck instead of a loaf of bread.

(Yeast is basically a plant that eats the sugar in the dough and produces carbon dioxide to make the bubbles in the bread. If your yeast is too old, it's all dead and that won't happen.)

Also, if you like bread with flavor, you want the yeast in the dough for a long time.

From the most flavor to the least, this means:

1. Sourdough starter. Kind of a pain in the ass. You have to feed it every day or two (throw some of it away and add some fresh water and flour).

2. Biga or poolish. Basically, the night before you're making your bread, mix some of the flour and water together with much less yeast than usual, and let it rise until the next day, when you add the rest of the ingredients (no more yeast). Easy, but you have to plan ahead a bit. This is what I like to do.

3. A long rise in cool temperatures.

4. A quick rise in warm temperatures (this is how you get bread that doesn't taste like anything).

quote:

Instant/rapid-rise/fast-acting yeast can just be mixed straight into the dough dry.

^^^^^^ Agree, except that rather than "can just" the recommendation in most books and on the package is that instant yeast "should be" added directly to the dry ingredients and kept away from moisture until mixed.

King Arthur Unbleached is good to go for all yeast breads, we actually use it for everything except cake type recipes.

quote:

Originally posted by oldRoger:

quote:

Instant/rapid-rise/fast-acting yeast can just be mixed straight into the dough dry.

^^^^^^ Agree, except that rather than "can just" the recommendation in most books and on the package is that instant yeast "should be" added directly to the dry ingredients and kept away from moisture until mixed.

I've heard this, too, but I'm not sure it's really true.

SAF is an instant yeast and I've "bloomed" it before and gotten good results.

One of the most common brands of yeast is Red Star. In their "Yeast & Baking Lessons" section, on the page for instant yeast, they say:

"In traditional dough making, (kneading by hand or in a stand mixer), you may use Instant (Platinum or Quick Rise) Yeast and Active Dry Yeast interchangeably, one for one. You may incorporate either type of yeast by rehydrating the yeast in warm water with sugar first or blending the yeast with the dry ingredients prior to adding warm liquids."

https://redstaryeast.com/yeast...r-fast-rising-yeast/

Great! Thanks guys.

Found King Author flour. Using that for my first attempt. I actually prefer more delicate breads but we'll see how this turns out.

I may try to look for the White Lily AP flour (not sure I saw it at the market) and see how that works. Or maybe blend the KA and the WL together?

Dough is rising(?) now for 3 hours. Then into the oven it goes.

I did a little more research on White Lily, and there are a few different varieties.

The normal one really looks like what most people would call cake flour (it has a low protein content, 8-9%, and is all soft winter wheat). Their webpage for it even says "White Lily® All-Purpose Flour is extremely versatile and can be used for most baking projects including cakes, cookies, pie crusts, pancakes, brownies, muffins, scones, and more." These are all the things you might want to use cake flour instead of all-purpose flour for.

https://www.whitelily.com/prod...ed-all-purpose-flour

They also make a "premium blend" all-purpose flour that is a blend of hard wheat, soft wheat, and grape seed flour and has a protein content of 11%, more like a normal AP flour.

https://www.whitelily.com/prod...-purpose-wheat-flour

I would avoid the White Lily flour that says "The Light Baking Flour" for making bread. The "premium blend" flour would probably be fine.

It almost seems like a marketing thing... I imagine there are a lot of people that get recipes that call for AP flour, but could really benefit from cake flour, but they don't know the difference and wouldn't make a substitution anyway. But then they see White Lily... the AP flour that will make your pastry light and fluffy. Because it's really cake flour.

I would follow any directions on the yeast package. Many recommend rehydrating in some warm water (away from salt).
Yeast in a dry state are a little stressed and their cell walls will benefit from a short period in low/non chlorinated, non-saline water, particularly if the date on your package is after the halfway point.

Cake yeast is in a constant state dying, so it's viability is short. Be good to your yeast, it will be good to you.

But, having said that, the recipe may be taking this into account and the quantity of yeast it recommends will account for any loss in viability due to shortcuts.

It's good to take notes however you do it and to note internal finish temp. w/ a thermopop($29) or thermapen for repeatability. Just for fun, you may want to record dough temp. too at beginning and before baking.

My go to recipe:

https://www.foodnetwork.com/re...bread-recipe-1973444

There are plenty of variations in times in the fridge, etc., to be found on the internet. I usually go all regular bread flour.

I never get tired of how surprising the breadth of knowledge on SF is.

First attempt - Fail.

I followed the recipe but used 400F instead of the recipe's 450F. My wife said our friend uses 400F with good results so I tried it. Bread crust was good but the inside was not done.

But the other thing is that the dough didn't seem to rise as well as depicted in the video recipe. Nor did it seems as fluid (like jello) after rising (mine was still sticky and solid).

I'll try again tomorrow sticking to the recipe.

I'm still eating it -- slicing it thin then toasting it makes it okay - a little hard but okay.

Attempt #2 tomorrow.

Oh, and the CI oven worked fine.

Letting the dough rise is really something you just have to do until it is done - following a recipe for an amount of time is a recipe for failure.

There are a lot of variables. Yeast is one that can make a big difference, as can how wet the dough is, but maybe the biggest is temperature. Just a few degrees can make a HUGE difference in the required amount of time. The proof time doubles/halves something like every 15 degrees. If your recipe says "proof for 3 hours in a warm place" meaning a 100 degree proofing box and you put it on a 75 degree counter instead, you need more than twice as much rise time. Add in that many recipes start with warm water (usually meaning something like 120 degrees) and your water might not be that warm, and you could be way under-proofed.

After you've done it a few times, you'll get an idea of what it should look like when it's ready.

It's still going to be sticky,

As far as the baking itself... Like with meat, one good way to get the experience to do it by feel is to cook to internal temperature for a while. Normal bread should be something like 190 when it's done. Bread with milk, butter, or eggs in it will be more like 200. The article below describes cooking to temp as well as two "feel" methods.

https://www.thekitchn.com/fres...o-tell-when-b-106715

Did you preheat the Dutch oven for a good long while? You want the bread to go in when it's very hot, which helps it puff up quickly. You'd think it wouldn't matter as long as you cooked it until it was done, but it does. Once the outside of the bread starts to cook, it stiffens up and won't expand any more even if the interior wants to. If the temp is too low in the oven, the skin will harden before it really puffs up, and then it can't.

You can also cause problems like this by letting the surface of the dough dry out too much during rising or by stretching the skin too tight while forming the loaf (although you have to really work at it to do that, it isn't very likely).

Also, earlier in the process, did you weigh your ingredients out or measure volumes? Going by weight is highly suggested, it is difficult to measure ingredients accurately by volume, ESPECIALLY dry ingredients like flour which can get packed down or fluffed up by a surprising amount.

As an aside, if you want to learn about all the details that go into the process, the best bread cookbook I have ever seen is "Flour Water Salt Yeast." It's amazing.

Cook to temperature and not time. 190-200F. If the top is browning too quickly, simply lay a piece of foil over it.

This recipe was supposed to be bullet proof for idiots like me

Okay - sounds like I need to become more familiar with when 'proofing' is done.

Great info about the temp - I actually never even thought of that. I'll try it once more (actually twice more) and then get out the thermopro if I'm still not getting good results.

I did preheat the dutch oven - actually longer than the recipe suggested. The recipe calls for pre-heating the oven w/ the dutch oven when you form the dough (after the proofing) - about 30 minutes. I started pre-heating 30 minutes before the proofing was supposed to be done so it was at 400 degrees for 45 minutes.

I don't weigh out the ingredients. The recipe calls for volumes (ie - 3 cups of flour). If this doesn't turn out, then maybe I'll look for a recipe that calls for weight (although it would really only be for the flour; the only other ingredients are yeast, salt and water and I think volume should be fine there).

I'll look for the book - thanks!

This time around, the crust didn't brown quickly - actually it didn't brown at all when the bread was supposed to be done given I used the wrong temp. I'll try again. And also maybe get a good oven thermometer - any recommendations (seems like Rubbermaid Commercial is favorably rated?).


Crap!! I tried to get an early start this morning on this. I messed up already. I used 3 cups of water instead of 1.5 cups. I should get my coffee first before cooking. The dough doesn't look bad - actually it still looks like the recipe (well, maybe a little bit more wet).

I'll try it anyway to see what happens. But I messed this round up already.

On to attempt #3 after this one gets put in the oven.

Here's a brief exerpt from the "Basic Bread Method" chapter (all the details of the bread making process that are common to all the recipes) in "Flour Water Salt Yeast" on how to tell the state of the proofing process.

Note that this applies to proofing the formed loaf after you've already done the initial rise and formed the loaf.

quote:

In each recipe I mention the finger-dent test for proofing. It remains the most foolproof method I know. To do the test, poke the rising loaf with a floured finger , making an indentation about ½ inch deep. If it springs back immediately, the loaf needs more proofing time. If the indentation springs back slowly and incompletely, the loaf is fully proofed and ready to bake. If the indentation doesn’t spring back at all, the loaf is overproofed. You’ve waited too long, and the loaf may collapse a bit when you remove it from its basket or put it into the Dutch oven for baking. (Still, occasionally I’m surprised to find that a loaf I thought overproofed holds its form and bakes up just fine.)

The book is really packed with great information.

quote:

In each recipe I mention the finger-dent test for proofing. It remains the most foolproof method I know. To do the test, poke the rising loaf with a floured finger , making an indentation about ½ inch deep. If it springs back immediately, the loaf needs more proofing time. If the indentation springs back slowly and incompletely, the loaf is fully proofed and ready to bake. If the indentation doesn’t spring back at all, the loaf is overproofed. You’ve waited too long, and the loaf may collapse a bit when you remove it from its basket or put it into the Dutch oven for baking. (Still, occasionally I’m surprised to find that a loaf I thought overproofed holds its form and bakes up just fine.)

Thanks! Will get the book. Although I'm not really forming a loaf. The recipe calls for just making a big blob of dough. Then folding over a few times and dumping the blob into a large parchment paper lined bowl where it waits while the oven is coming to temp.

The waterlogged dough I made this morning rose quite a bit more than yesterday but it's pretty gooey.... Oven is coming up to temp. I wonder if this is going to be edible. I may give it some additional time to bake (maybe 45 minutes instead of the recipe 30 minutes).

This is kind of funny and fun...

I've used all kinds of flour with this basic recipe and it makes little difference. What size is your Dutch oven? If it's wider, the loaf won't rise as high. I think the one in my pic is at max 4 quart. And it's cheap Costco bulk flour.

I always go 45 minutes at 450 with the lid on, then another 15 with lid off.


I mix three cups of flour with a cup and a half of water, a bit of salt and a little yeast. It gets covered and sits overnight before baking.