Afghanistan Exit, When Is The Right Time? A Replay of History?

July 06, 2021, 07:56 PM

The Afghanis have been killing each other since the beginning of time. The entire shitty country is not worth a single drop of American blood or a dime of American money.
And I agree we should have destroyed or removed anything we paid for before we bailed. Right down to the concrete.

July 06, 2021, 08:03 PM

parabellum

Horrible, rocky, dusty, ugly place filled with ignorant barbarians who are stuck in the Sixth Century. It would be best if the place disappeared from the planet, replaced by a huge sea.

July 06, 2021, 08:05 PM

Wolfpacker

quote:
Originally posted by YooperSigs:
The Afghanis have been killing each other since the beginning of time. The entire shitty country is not worth a single drop of American blood or a dime of American money.
And I agree we should have destroyed or removed anything we paid for before we bailed. Right down to the concrete.

Well said!!

July 06, 2021, 08:44 PM

sns3guppy

I spent time in Afghanistan, several years, and have been going back for another ten+.

It's a strange feeling to think of Baghram, that the last time I was there was the last time I'd ever be there, and didn't know it.

It was a strange feeling to see places on TV, Mosul, etc, in Iraq, as they were overrun by ISIL, when the last time I was there, they were home.

Looking back, Iraq feels like a colossal waste. So does Afghanistan.

Our people will still be there, in smaller numbers, with far less support. The Afghan troops will turn tail and run, and be overwhelmed, and will fall. and the country has become a more dangerous place. It was the world's leading producer of tar heroin when we went there, and it still is.

Speaking to a reporter, an afghan commander commented on the US leaving without notification at Baghram, "they destroyed all the good will built up over 20 years." That sums up the gratitude: none. Zero fucks given. The base was overrun by looters; the Afghans couldn't even control that. They'll fold in the next seige. Gone. Done.

We should never have gone. We should never have stayed. It's a hollow feeling looking in the rear view, and seeing nothing but rubble to show for the effort.

July 06, 2021, 09:26 PM

tatortodd

quote:
Originally posted by Sig2340:
We should have left on December 10, 2001, the day after Kandahar was declared secured by Karzi's militia.

July 06, 2021, 11:56 PM

corsair

Afghanistan was and should've always been a SOF war. Very small footprint, let the cultural warfare experts run things, Afghans deal with Afghans, the US forces remain in the shadow to hammer whomever needed hammering. It was a perfect arena for Army Special Forces, unconventional and guerrilla warfare experts, flexible and adaptable to the conditions on the ground.

There's a lot that can be parsed about 'how could things have been different'; Vietnam should've been a learning experience, instead the Army ignored what happened and solely focused on peer-to-peer warfare with the Soviets. Once again, the same line of thinking has cropped-up as many, many decision makers failed to grasp unconventional warfare and the methods needed.

20 years in, such a waste....

July 07, 2021, 01:05 AM

CPD SIG

As much as I hated that place in an odd way, we needed to be there.

Before we got there, we needed an exit plan, and "just leaving" ain't it.

We're walking out, China is walking in.

I hope we save the maps where all the nooks and crannies are, because I have a funny feeling that in some way, we'll be back there.

______________________________________________________________________
"When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!"

“What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy

July 07, 2021, 01:39 AM

sns3guppy

I suspect you're right.

July 07, 2021, 06:39 AM

HayesGreener

quote:
Originally posted by HayesGreener:
Deja Vu, Saigon, April 29, 1975. Iraq, but you get the idea

July 07, 2021, 10:25 AM

DennisM

Broken record, but: Everything you need to know about foreign intervention in Afghanistan can be found in Rudyard Kipling's 19th-century writing.

Nothing has changed except that AKs rather than muskets flow from Peshawar, and the natives are torching around in Toyotas instead of on horses.

They can't be governed. And they damned near can't be occupied.

July 07, 2021, 10:35 AM

Yanert98

quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
It's a hollow feeling looking in the rear view, and seeing nothing but rubble to show for the effort.

Agreed.

July 07, 2021, 11:00 AM

clipper1

quote:
quote:
Originally posted by YooperSigs:
The Afghanis have been killing each other since the beginning of time. The entire shitty country is not worth a single drop of American blood or a dime of American money.
And I agree we should have destroyed or removed anything we paid for before we bailed. Right down to the concrete.

I think this sums up the whole charade our gov't has put us through, starting with WWI up to Iraq, Viet Nam, and now Afghanistan.

July 07, 2021, 11:24 AM

TMats

Deja vu all over again.

“I get to Washington periodically, and I go to the Vietnam Wall occasionally. Umm, when I visit the Wall, people see names and they look at names and you’ll see people looking for certain names. I don’t look for names, I see faces. I hear voices. I smell smoke in the cockpit. I see ejection seats. I hear beepers. Then I hear the voices of men on the radios…in, in deep trouble, and other people trying to save them, and I just look at those 58,000 names and I say, ‘Why?’ “

He continues, “I had a great career, but the thing I long learned is that war is a serious business and if you get into it you better have the backing of the American people. And you better get in, and win, and get out, because if you don’t, you get what we’ve got right now which is extended wars with no end and no out, and no way to get out of them. And that’s not the way we want things in America. I hope we’re smarter in the future. I hope our kids are smarter than we are, because they’re better than we are.”
- Don Shepperd, Maj. Gen. USAF (Ret.)

July 07, 2021, 12:17 PM

apprentice

If indeed it is China's turn next I can't wait to see how it goes for them. Hopefully they get stuck there for a century and an nice big heroin epidemic as a consolation prize.

July 07, 2021, 01:03 PM

DoctorSolo

quote:
Originally posted by apprentice:
If indeed it is China's turn next I can't wait to see how it goes for them. Hopefully they get stuck there for a century and an nice big heroin epidemic as a consolation prize.

Let China jump in the quicksand. I see no down side.

July 07, 2021, 01:10 PM

Edmond

quote:
Originally posted by apprentice:
If indeed it is China's turn next I can't wait to see how it goes for them. Hopefully they get stuck there for a century and an nice big heroin epidemic as a consolation prize.

The Chinese are willing to starve, jail and oppress their own people. You think Afghan lives matter to them. Life is not something the Chinese care about.

They deserve each other, let the animals kill one another.

July 07, 2021, 01:13 PM

oldbill123

I don't think China will have the problems. Much more brutal they are just there for the natural resources

July 07, 2021, 01:43 PM

apprentice

quote:
Originally posted by oldbill123:
I don't think China will have the problems. Much more brutal they are just there for the natural resources

Perhaps, but they had quite a problem with opium for a while and I see no big change in human nature on the horizon. Fingers crossed anyway.

July 07, 2021, 02:06 PM

mbinky

Alexander The Great was brutal; Genghis Khan was brutal; the Russians were brutal. They didn't stick around.

Fuck that place and everyone in it. The Chi-coms can have it. Twenty years with no end in sight is well past time to leave. If the taliban can take the whole place over in under 6 months the AFG government would have never been ready and we would have never left.

July 07, 2021, 04:58 PM

220-9er

Even better, let the Chicoms and the Russians take another crack at it together.
Both are brutal and can do it without the media oversight we have to live under and both will likely fail after using up a tremendous amount of resources.
I suspect that's why the Russians were so cooperative with us on Afghanistan after 9/11. Those folks are in their back yard, unlike us, and letting us and our allies burn up resources to distract the crazies for a decade or two was good thinking on their part.