quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
Wow, Martinez was a terrible shot.

Probably trained by the NYPD.

quote:

Maybe he should look into a different girlfriend.

My first thought here. He doesn't want girlfriend hanging out with couple. Girlfriend hangs out with couple. There is an obvious issue relationship-wise from the get-go.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
Maybe Kirkman fired the first shot.

True. That wouldn't have been known without further investigation. (Things like autopsies, ballistics, DNA testing, etc. take a while.)

It was possible that Kirkman was the aggressor and fired first, striking the deceased, who lived long enough to unleash a barrage of rounds in attempted self-defense.

These kinds of things take a bit to sort out.

No, he did not fire the first shot.

According to the investigation, he brought only one .22 round, already chambered in his single shot rifle. The round that killed Martinez.

Plus the article stated that alcohol was involved, but doesn't specify whether both were intoxicated or just one of them.

Interesting story. And one reason why I will never dump my lever actions or revolvers. They are still quite viable for defense.
Hopefully I will never have to rely on .22LR but I have two of them.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
No, he did not fire the first shot.

According to the investigation, he brought only one .22 round, already chambered in his single shot rifle. The round that killed Martinez.

We know that now.

My point was that this wasn't known at the time of the incident and initial arrest. It took further investigation (and time) to suss that out. And that was just one of numerous details and potential scenarios that needed to be explored further and ruled out.

^^^^^^^^

Got it.

I still don't understand …
are there further reports showing that Martinez didn't take a .22 round in the chest, and bleed out after firing '15 shots from an AR and 12 shots from a 40 cal'?

Not explicitly in any of the news reports I've seen.

But several of the news reports have the District Attorney quoted as saying after the hearing that he agrees with the grand jury's ruling because "the law is that you are allowed to return deadly force when deadly force is being used against you”.

Which indicates that he returned fire only after being fired upon first.

"The only surviving eyewitness to the events appears to be Dakota Wayne Kirkman."

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/...ats-ar15-and-40-cal/

And that's where things like the autopsy results and various evidence gathered at the scene would come into play to inform whether the .22 round was fired early and he slowly bled out, or the .22 round was fired late and quickly ended the fight.

(Beyond merely what Kirkman himself claims, as the sole witness.)

We don't have access to all that, but the quoted DA does, and he seems to believe that Kirkman returned fire.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Maybe he should look into a different girlfriend.

My first thought here. He doesn't want girlfriend hanging out with couple. Girlfriend hangs out with couple. There is an obvious issue relationship-wise from the get-go.

Important info left out o the first article:

"According to affidavits and witness statements, Kirkman went to the home to pick up his girlfriend, who was there with her sister, who is Martinez’s wife, Lassmann said."

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/...ats-ar15-and-40-cal/

Probably trained by Jim Beam.

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
Wow, Martinez was a terrible shot.

Probably trained by the NYPD.

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Maybe he should look into a different girlfriend.

My first thought here. He doesn't want girlfriend hanging out with couple. Girlfriend hangs out with couple. There is an obvious issue relationship-wise from the get-go.

Important info left out o the first article:

"According to affidavits and witness statements, Kirkman went to the home to pick up his girlfriend, who was there with her sister, who is Martinez’s wife, Lassmann said."

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/...ats-ar15-and-40-cal/

It was in the 2nd paragraph:

quote:

His girlfriend, Martinez, and Martinez' wife were at Martinez' house when Kirkman came to bring his girlfriend home. Kirkman arrived in his truck. He had a singleshot .22 rifle and one cartridge, loaded in the chamber.

RichardC was pointing out another article that revealed that Kirkman's girlfriend and Martinez's wife were sisters.

That family connection wasn't mentioned in the OP, 2nd paragraph or otherwise.

It helps explain why the girlfriend was still going over there (to hang out with her sister and brother-in-law) despite her boyfriend's insistence that she stay away.

Ah, roger that.

Yeah, that guy should cut loose of the crazy GF.

Nothing is worth the sure to follow drama.

What evidence do you have that the girlfriend is crazy? Is it simply because she continued to have contact with her sister and brother in law, after her boyfriend told her not to? That's literally the only detail we have about the girlfriend in the story.

Maybe he's just the overly controlling boyfriend type, who was trying to isolate her from her friends and family. We don't know.

And we certainly don't know that she's "crazy".

We don't know that the girlfriend is crazy, but we can bet that she's a little pissed off now. Thanksgiving get-togethers with her sister can probably be ruled out, too.

A bit far from current discussion, but this was in early on -

quote:

don't go anywhere with a gun that you wouldn't go without a gun.

?

Can someone reword this so I might make sense of it?

Sorry for the drift.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris42:
A bit far from current discussion, but this was in early on -

quote:

don't go anywhere with a gun that you wouldn't go without a gun.

Can someone reword this so I might make sense of it?

I think Groucho said it best:

"If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does."

HTH