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Get Off My Lawn |
Given the arguments regarding caliber and capacity, this situation reminds us that shot placement trumps everything.
Kirkham was in jail for 55 days, and on Oc.11, the grand jury found him justified by reason of self defense. Link "I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965 | ||
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Go ahead punk, make my day |
Honestly not sure why he spent more than a night in jail, much less 55 days. | |||
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Member |
From the link, what could go wrong? "867 Bootlegger Lane" "The Sheriff reported that alcohol was involved." The dead guy fired 15 shots from an AR and 12 shots from a 40 cal. The survivor fired one shot from a 22. Not yer typical ending, maybe the survivor drank less, or not at all. | |||
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Just because you can, doesn't mean you should |
He was still very lucky even if this was good marksmanship,and not just good luck. A better plan is, don't be around stupid people doing stupid things (and drinking at the same time). ___________________________ Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible. | |||
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Get Off My Lawn |
Yeah, I was pondering that too, but the dead guy apparently was the resident. "I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965 | |||
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Member |
I doubt he could make bond, probably not low considering the circumstances. All he could afford was a single-shot .22, so I'm guessing he was not real familiar with money. -------------------------- Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H L Mencken I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is. -- JALLEN 10/18/18 | |||
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Just because you can, doesn't mean you should |
He may have been innocent by self defense of the shooting but may have committed a number of other infractions. He took his .22 rifle with one bullet to a potential gunfight and was drinking. Another good lesson, don't go anywhere with a gun that you wouldn't go without a gun. ___________________________ Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible. | |||
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Go ahead punk, make my day |
Probably correct. | |||
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Crusty old curmudgeon |
I wonder what condition his underwear was in after all that mayhem? Jim ________________________ "If you can't be a good example, then you'll have to be a horrible warning" -Catherine Aird | |||
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The success of a solution usually depends upon your point of view |
Maybe he should look into a different girlfriend. “We truly live in a wondrous age of stupid.” - 83v45magna "I think it's important that people understand free speech doesn't mean free from consequences societally or politically or culturally." -Pranjit Kalita, founder and CIO of Birkoa Capital Management | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
There are various examples of folks getting killed with a single lucky .22 round. But those are the exception, not the rule. The Trooper Mark Coates shooting, which just about every LEO these days learns about in the academy, is one well-known example. South Carolina State Trooper gets into a gun fight during a traffic stop in 1992. Shoots the bad guy 5 times center mass with his .357 Magnum. Bad guy gets one lucky shot with a .22, which just missed the Trooper's vest, hit him in the armpit, and then traveled into his heart where it severed his aorta. Bad guy survived a chest full of .357 Magnum. Trooper Coates died from one random .22 round. | |||
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Get Off My Lawn |
No shit Obviously the kid had fired the very last shot and had to withstand the previous 27 rounds. I'm assuming the dead guy emptied his pistol and went to his AR for the last 15 rds. And based on the number of .223 fired, there might have been a good chance he had 5-15 rds left in the mag. "I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965 | |||
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Member |
beware the fella with only one gun. he probably knows how to use it. Regards, P. | |||
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Too old to run, too mean to quit! |
On the face of it, seems like "justice" needs some serious help there. All that ammo from 2 different high power weapons fired at the guy. He fires one shot(.22 yet)in self defense. Is the legal system truly so screwed up there that the innocent party spends 55 days in jail? Remind me never to go to that jurisdiction! I have heard about the wheels of justice grinding slowly, but DAMN! Elk There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour) "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville FBHO!!! The Idaho Elk Hunter | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
Just because it was ruled self defense in the long run, doesn't mean it was immediately apparent as self defense at the beginning. (I highly doubt the cops in rural South Texas were like "This guy's clearly innocent, but we're going to arrest him anyway!") This isn't one of those cut and dried "I was minding my own business and a bad guy tried to break in/rob me/rape me so I shot him in clear self defense" kind of shootings. Self defense claims can often be sketchy. Based on the article, it sounds like there was a history of bad blood between the two guys. Kirkman shows up at the dead guy's house, possibly drunk. They get into a verbal altercation. Then it escalates into a shooting. Just based on those bare bones initial details, it's plausible for the roles to have easily been switched, with Kirkham possibly being the aggressor/escalator, threatening the other guy with his .22 rifle, and the other guy responding with handgun and rifle rounds in self defense, before Kirkham finally murdered him. Stuff like that takes time to sort out. After all, per the Texas Penal Code, using deadly force in self defense is only justified when the shooter (1)has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, (2)has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and (3)is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used. Based on the bare bones initial details, Kirkman very well could have been violating one or more of those, which would have meant his self defense claim could be rejected. Only once further details were gathered and later presented to the grand jury, was it finally ruled to be justified self defense, based on all the evidence available in the end. | |||
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Member |
Maybe Kirkman fired the first shot. ____________________ | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
True. That wouldn't have been known without further investigation. (Things like autopsies, ballistics, DNA testing, etc. take a while.) It was possible that Kirkman was the aggressor and fired first, striking the deceased, who lived long enough to unleash a barrage of rounds in attempted self-defense. These kinds of things take a bit to sort out. | |||
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Member |
Yes. The government figures it's easier to keep somebody locked up than to risk him not showing up for trial. Excessive bail (8th Amendment) is pretty much ignored. That's one reason jails are so overcrowded. In Crook County, I believe those who are unconvicted and awaiting trial may be there two years or more. Bad dudes they may be, and without a doubt many, even most of them, are guilty, but there is no real presumption of innocence. -------------------------- Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H L Mencken I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is. -- JALLEN 10/18/18 | |||
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Oh stewardess, I speak jive. |
Wow, Martinez was a terrible shot. | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
And/or was shitfaced drunk.
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