More than 100 vehicles involved, 6 dead so far, dozens in hospital. Apparently caused by black ice on the pavement.

flashguy

some of the videos are absolutely stomach churning

very sad

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Today was horrific in Ft. Worth today.

We were going to leave tomorrow (from just east of Dallas) for AZ. With the weather uncertainty, have delayed a week. I hope people learned a lot from today and we do not have similar problems as this cold spell is supposed to continue for several more days.

Yeah. I'm OK to stay in, but I have a scheduled medical treatment tomorrow morning a few miles south of me. I'm in NE Dallas. I'm not sure I want to venture out right now.

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:
Yeah. I'm OK to stay in, but I have a scheduled medical treatment tomorrow morning a few miles south of me. I'm in NE Dallas. I'm not sure I want to venture out right now.

flashguy

All these wrecks happened because people didn’t plan in advance...they are driving too fast for the conditions.

This morning there was a little ice in Temple, I started the truck a half hour before I had to leave with the Tomminator for school. By ten they said the kids would leave at one....
I started the truck a half hour before hand and let it warm up and I poured some water on the windshield and side windows so I could see.

I drove slowly thru the neighborhood. I braked before the normal distance for stop signs.

I drove defensively.

It’s not rocket science.

Warm the car up early so you can see, drive slowly. Plan extra time, and have a blanket and water and a cereal bar in the car in case the shit hits the fan and you are stuck.


Call ahead and see if they are gonna be open, or check the website.

I crossed over the southern-most end of this wreck this morning as I took a detour through downtown Fort Worth to avoid the big up and over bridges at 30 and 35. I later saw some of the video (shot from the opposite lanes) of one 18 wheeler after another slamming into the pileup. I had to quickly shut it off as I couldn't watch anymore. How very sad.

The worst part about it was aside from this long bridge at the end of a gentle downhill grade there was very little ice on the FW side. Seems Dallas and areas south got most of that. Folks that were involved here had likely made their entire drive without encountering any ice, only to get caught up in this.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:

All these wrecks happened because people didn’t plan in advance...they are driving too fast for the conditions.

They were driving on a highway and encountered ice. What speed exactly is too fast for ice? Were they supposed to magically see they were approaching black ice and slow down to 1mph prior to driving over it?

I thought I saw reported there were 8 dead now.

In this video the road looked *extremely* slick, why in the world were they going so fast?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r6txOuvbwc

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:
Yeah. I'm OK to stay in, but I have a scheduled medical treatment tomorrow morning a few miles south of me. I'm in NE Dallas. I'm not sure I want to venture out right now.

flashguy

All these wrecks happened because people didn’t plan in advance...they are driving too fast for the conditions.

This morning there was a little ice in Temple, I started the truck a half hour before I had to leave with the Tomminator for school. By ten they said the kids would leave at one....
I started the truck a half hour before hand and let it warm up and I poured some water on the windshield and side windows so I could see.

I drove slowly thru the neighborhood. I braked before the normal distance for stop signs.

I drove defensively.

It’s not rocket science.

Warm the car up early so you can see, drive slowly. Plan extra time, and have a blanket and water and a cereal bar in the car in case the shit hits the fan and you are stuck.


Call ahead and see if they are gonna be open, or check the website.

So you're the one guy that does 55 on a Texas freeway?

Let me explain to you how physics works, partner. If you're going freeway speeds whether it's 55, 65, or 75 and hit black ice, you're not stopping. I was a medic in Illinois. I've pulled more than a fair share of people out of vehicles that went off the road in a snowstorm or ice storm. If you're not expecting to hit black ice (hence the word "black" as in you can't see it on the road) you will never react fast enough. I've seen people slide through intersections going 15 miles per hour because there was a patch at the stoplight. Speed doesn't matter. Once a vehicle starts sliding on that type of black ice, it will keep on sliding until it hits something.

Accidents like this are awful because there is nothing drivers can do. Even if you *are* the dude doing 55 on a Texas freeway, the guy in the F-350 behind you doing 85 to hit the same ice you are. And nobody, I mean nobody, is expecting black ice in Texas, even North Texas.

Yes, staying off the road is preferable but that's a luxury many people don't have.

So have some sympathy for the people who are dead, injured, or lost their vehicles and are now facing financial hardship instead of blaming them. They're having one of the worst days of their lives and Monday morning quarterbacking their life decisions doesn't do anyone any good.

Just a few miles from my house. They bused survivors with no ties to the injured or dead to a holding place in For Worth to be picked up so as to avoid congestion at the crash site which will take many days to clear up. As to why people where going so fast is two fold. One we don't get much weather like that. I think its been about 6 six or seven years since we've had snow or ice. People get complacent. And two, although the roads appeared slick in the videos, black ice at street level is very hard to detect. The road may be perfectly dry and drivable and then turns to ice in the time it takes to change the channel on the radio.

My heart and prayers go out to those killed or injured and their loved ones who are no doubt devastated.

quote:

Originally posted by caneau:

So you're the one guy that does 55 on a Texas freeway?

Let me explain to you how physics works, partner. If you're going freeway speeds whether it's 55, 65, or 75 and hit black ice, you're not stopping. I was a medic in Illinois. I've pulled more than a fair share of people out of vehicles that went off the road in a snowstorm or ice storm. If you're not expecting to hit black ice (hence the word "black" as in you can't see it on the road) you will never react fast enough.......

In the video the road was obviously icy, not black ice. There was even frost and snow on the berms and median.

The semi that demolished that white truck was going way too fast for that kind of traffic. He wasn't just sliding on ice, he was hauling ass in stop and go traffic. I see this stuff every winter here. People drive like its a sunny summer day no matter what the weather is.

All of the TV and radio stations that do any amount of news, weather, and traffic reporting in DFW started saying on Tuesday that below-freezing temperatures and light rain turning to ice were possible on Thursday morning. Wednesday's forecasts changed that to probable, and last night's news gave what I thought were pretty adequate warnings.

I feel horrible for the people who were killed or injured, as well as their families. But the speeds we saw on the videos were absolutely reckless under the conditions and based on the prior warnings.

I spent 23 years with Dallas PD (before retiring last week after 10 with Tarrant County SO). I can't count the number of "black ice"-related highway accidents I worked in Dallas. While there were a few with fatalities and injuries, NONE were anywhere close to this magnitude.

What happened early this morning was the result of drivers' gross ignorance or disregard for the weather and road conditions that were broadcast over the past two days and the failure of many drivers to "feel the road" that would have allowed them to sense that they needed to reduce their speed.

Early this morning, before news of the Fort Worth tragedy got on the radio, I drove my wife from our house in a northwest Dallas suburb to the hospital district just east of downtown Dallas for her first Covid shot. I knew enough to stay off the freeways. We had zero problems.

I'm from Alaska and can tell you that people from Southern States can't drive on wet roads or snow and ice.

After the first snow or hard freeze after a thaw, when approaching a stop sign or red light, the first thing I'd do was look in my rear view mirror at the license plate of the vehicle behind me.

If it wasn't an Alaska plate, I moved over a lane and the car that was behind me would frequently go sliding into the intersection.

I live in northeast Ohio. I have driven on snow covered and at times on ice covered roads.

There is a BIG difference between snow covered/slippery roads and ice/black ice covered roads. When the road is so slick that a car stopped will slide off to the side just from the crown in road that is a black ice situation.

Now we have a freeway. Drivers entered freeway no issues. You can not safely drive slow enough to be ready for a patch of black ice.

The way to be safe with the weather warning would have been to stay off the freeway and limit driving to absolute necessity trips.

An object lesson about why one should carry a trauma kit in their car. Hundreds of people who never thought they'd end up in a mass-casualty event, but did, and one where getting EMS to the scene is difficult. That makes you the responder.

its evident from the videos some were driving too fast for conditions

some however WERE driving prudently -- they got stopped in time and were obliterated from behind anyway

that portion of highway had cement barriers on either 'wall'... no means of escape

what a nightmare -- some were getting hypothermic trapped in their cars

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Could we not, just for a day maybe, claim we know better than the over 130 people who are people just like the rest of us? Do you really think they were all idiots, didn't use 4wd properly, didn't read the conditions properly, or whatever it is you need to tell yourself that it wouldn't have happened to you because you are so superior?

6 people died, 65 people were sent to the hospital, 4 first responders were injured doing their jobs. God bless them and their families.

Well said, Trapper. I have lived most of my life in 'winter' country where black ice, slick roads and 4 wheel drives are the norm. Any speed, on black ice is too fast. As mentioned on an earlier post, a stopped vehicle can slide off the road just due to the crown. I've seen it happen.

We expect bad roads in Montana during winter month and most drive accordingly. I doubt those drivers in Texas expected the icy roads. Pray for all involved.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:

All these wrecks happened because people didn’t plan in advance...they are driving too fast for the conditions.

They were driving on a highway and encountered ice. What speed exactly is too fast for ice? Were they supposed to magically see they were approaching black ice and slow down to 1mph prior to driving over it?

Middle Ohio is notorious for getting hit with freezing rain and I spent a good number of years living in middle Ohio. I still remember one drive from Columbus to Mansfield in a freezing rain. BTW, that was rain falling on wet ice and then freezing. As for a safe speed in those conditions that was 15 mph. On the plus side us Ohioans had been conditioned by Ohio's enforcement of the national 55 mph speed limit to drive at exactly 3 mph over the limit. As a result at that time Ohio drivers didn't pass, they just got in the right lane and cruised. So in that 15 mph traffic crawl there weren't anyone passing or trying to rush it, we all drove at 15 mph.

So, what is a truly SAFE speed? It is the speed at which you can maintain control and stop when necessary. Note the SPEED LIMIT DON'T MEAN DIDDLY SQUAT, you drive at whatever speed is safe.