No one here said that they were superior drivers who wouldn't have made mistakes, they're merely stating that people were driving too fast, which they were.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
they got stopped in time and were obliterated from behind

If ever caught in one of those pileups I'd want to get out of the vehicle and get as far away as possible.

Seen too many videos of people not and the vehicles just keep piling up on top of them.

The results indicate people were traveling too fast for the conditions.

I've seen black ice in the mountain passes here where I could push a full size car sideways with ease- If I could stand up.

quote:

people were driving too fast, which they were.

Was it the people going too fast (moving in a straight line without issue) or the people going too slow (catching traffic from behind) which was the problem?

I've got a bit of experience when it comes to a variety of driving, and I can say that people going too slow are just as much of a problem as those going too fast. To expand on that further, most of those going too slow are doing so because they lack the skills or equipment to be driving in those conditions safely to begin with.

As far as ice goes, it was already mentioned that speed is of little concern if the vehicle is not equipped to be on ice. Faster may actually be a little better when you're talking about a patch as the inertia may take you all the way through it prior to any lateral movement. I have been in several ice conditions where even completely stopped vehicles were moving in a direction other than intended, and you can go from traction to no traction in an instant without any outward indication.

A few years back I was out in an ice storm here in the St. Louis area on a section of roadway that is well known to freeze over quickly. I have ice traction tires and am in stop and go traffic, that when going is moving very slow. All of a sudden everything comes to a dead stop. Up to this point I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. I was wearing some work bibs and was starting to get uncomfortable, so I decided to step out of the truck to take them off. Stepped out of the truck and promptly busted my ass on the ice. Certainly didn't seem that slick from driving on it.

We didn't have much 'black ice' in metro Phoenix but we had heavy rain and dust storms during summer monsoon. It brought the same results. I referred to ignorant drivers as BFH (big fuc*ing hurry). They only think of themselves.

quote:

that portion of highway had cement barriers on either 'wall'... no means of escape

---------------------------------

Quote above clipped....

I agree with you completely, both side lined with concrete give me the creeps, I normally low down some and increase my alertness.

That particular piece of road is an "Express Lane". I hate being trapped, there truly is no way out, therefore, if given the choice, I do not drive those type of lanes. Sometimes you have not choice......

quote:

Originally posted by sigspecops:
No one here said that they were superior drivers who wouldn't have made mistakes, they're merely stating that people were driving too fast, which they were.

Agreed. People drive bad here in the warm/dry, especially during the pandemic where MPH is way up compared to normal. The news warned of such events, "be extremely careful" etc. I've also encountered this exact situation many times over my life here. I've skipped high overpasses, bridges, and used common sense and driving acumen. Some of these folks were driving entirely too fast for conditions.

It's a general rule here that people just can't drive in inclement weather. They also don't equip their vehicles with proper tires for road conditions. I've explained to friends that you don't want to just buy the cheapest tires made for your wheel size. That if you only want one set, here it's preferable to go all seasons and check the ratings so they work half way decent in the cold, rain, and have a piece of tread for snow/ice. Literally they put no thought into it. Then they question to me why I run a winter wheel set on any vehicle where I have summer tires mounted for the spring/summer. I do what I can to push them into something like a Conti DWS06 if they are made for their vehicle, or something similar but they buy the cheapest shit they can find every time and make little adjustment for inclement weather. Is what it is. Every time we have ice, which is not every year, the news shows footage of straight bumper cars, especially on overpasses.

No doubt people here in TX drive too fast in poor conditions, especially those in big trucks who I guess think they are exempt from the laws of physics. A big part of this accident I've been told is it's a downgrade after a blind hill. In one video shot from the opposite side you can see a front wheel drive compact spinning its front wheels as it goes up the incline. So anyone coming over the hump at anything above a crawl would suddenly find themselves on a downhill slope with no braking ability. Those tractor trailers were really moving when they hit, seems to me with the long downslope they probably were accelerating from the lack of braking so not much they could do. The energy in those collisions was eye opening.

Horrible and tragic.

Black ice is treacherous stuff.

Boss

I'm amazed at some of the previous responses. Anyone who has ever experienced black ice knows that you go from being in control, to becoming an observer along for the ride. Spinning out of control, losing traction, is just no fun. This ties in with my rant about speeding. Driving too fast for conditions, speeding, following too close can all contribute to horrible accidents like this. Being trapped on an interstate with no means of escape turned out to be deadly for some. We take this danger for granted for the convince of being able to travel when and where we want. Prayers out to the victims who were involved in this tragedy.

Streets are dry here in Dallas today. It's cold out, though.

flashguy

There are some claims that the company contracted to salt and sand the roads and highways did not salt that overpass properly and timely. If true, that company and its insurer will be in a world of troubles.

quote:

Driving too fast for conditions, speeding, following too close can all contribute to horrible accidents like this.

So can driving too slow, obstructing traffic, stopping in the middle of the road, and having no business being out in that weather due to lack of skills and/or equipment.

Accidents like this usually start a chain reaction. Many of those coming in from behind have zero control issues until encountering the above mentioned problems. Even at half the speed those accidents were still going to happen once it all began.

I just watched a video of a couple of cops who almost got flat during a similar situation a year ago, also in Texas. They were out trying to get the morons who were stopped in the middle of the road to move out of the roadway when a tractor trailer came in from behind, swerved to miss the stopped traffic, and rolled his truck in the median where everybody was standing. Lots of pucker factor here.

quote:

Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
An object lesson about why one should carry a trauma kit in their car. Hundreds of people who never thought they'd end up in a mass-casualty event, but did, and one where getting EMS to the scene is difficult. That makes you the responder.

Quoted for emphasis.

When I worked the street as an officer in the Midwest more than 40 years ago we had to contend with icing on bridges and overpasses often in winter. I can tell you that you can go from having a damp overpass to having black ice in a matter of seconds when conditions are right. We would go drive our cruisers on it from time to time to determine if icing had occurred. Even with studs there is nothing like nearly being stuck in the middle of an overpass on black ice. On a number of occasions when we saw icing we would shut down the approaches to overpasses, but some citizen would invariably drive around the barricades and cause a problem. It would get so slick you could not even walk on it. I worked two crashes where fellow officers were hit by cars on icy overpasses, but never anything like what happened in FW. I can't help but think with the technology we have today, we should be able to monitor conditions on bridges and overpasses and predict this kind of thing in order to take preventive measures. We had enough ice and snow and moved to Florida.

When the conditions are right for black ice, rain or snow and temps subfreezing, that overpasses will ice first. The heat from the ground will keep the water from freezing for a while on the regular highway, but when you get to an overpass, there is nothing but concrete which freezes the road a lot faster than the ground does. When everything is icy everyone tends to pay attention, but when the conditions are just right and the regular high way hasn't froze, people haul ass like they usually do, until they get to an overpass and all hell breaks loose.

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
When I worked the street as an officer in the Midwest more than 40 years ago we had to contend with icing on bridges and overpasses often in winter. I can tell you that you can go from having a damp overpass to having black ice in a matter of seconds when conditions are right. We would go drive our cruisers on it from time to time to determine if icing had occurred. Even with studs there is nothing like nearly being stuck in the middle of an overpass on black ice. On a number of occasions when we saw icing we would shut down the approaches to overpasses, but some citizen would invariably drive around the barricades and cause a problem. It would get so slick you could not even walk on it. I worked two crashes where fellow officers were hit by cars on icy overpasses, but never anything like what happened in FW. I can't help but think with the technology we have today, we should be able to monitor conditions on bridges and overpasses and predict this kind of thing in order to take preventive measures. We had enough ice and snow and moved to Florida.

Bridges and overpasses can be frightening things on otherwise "good" roads for sure. Smart folks know to not cross them on cruise control.

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
When I worked the street as an officer in the Midwest more than 40 years ago we had to contend with icing on bridges and overpasses often in winter. I can tell you that you can go from having a damp overpass to having black ice in a matter of seconds when conditions are right. We would go drive our cruisers on it from time to time to determine if icing had occurred. Even with studs there is nothing like nearly being stuck in the middle of an overpass on black ice. On a number of occasions when we saw icing we would shut down the approaches to overpasses, but some citizen would invariably drive around the barricades and cause a problem. It would get so slick you could not even walk on it. I worked two crashes where fellow officers were hit by cars on icy overpasses, but never anything like what happened in FW. I can't help but think with the technology we have today, we should be able to monitor conditions on bridges and overpasses and predict this kind of thing in order to take preventive measures. We had enough ice and snow and moved to Florida.

Bridges and overpasses can be frightening things on otherwise "good" roads for sure. Smart folks know to not cross them on cruise control.

I'd like to add, also driving under them, particularly when it's windy. A wind tunnel effect can cause icing under the bridge. Years ago, a wrecker I was driving had the back end swing sideways under an overpass at about 40-45 (serious snow coming down). The second I went under, the rear axle broke traction, and just as I started to correct, I came out the other side. The rear seemed like it snapped back into alignment from positive traction. Big time pucker factor.