quote:

I'm pretty open to different Christian sects all having a path to heaven. I don't get hung up on some of the doctrinal differences.

Same. I am willing to totally ignore minor doctrinal differences in conversation. We've touched on this a few times, over the course of this thread. I think a lot of the stuff that Pentecostal/Holiness churches are into is superfluous at best, largely a distraction from more important fundamentals, and dangerous at its worst. I would love it if someone from one of those Churches witnessed to me, or anyone else, because they love me and want me to know that my salvation can be found in Christ.

quote:

No earthly leader who has developed a following wants to give that up.

Can you elaborate? My mother's cousin was a Catholic Priest for decades, and recently "gave it up" because he wanted to have a family. I am sure he humbly attends mass and serves in his parish. My mother also has a close friend who was formerly a Catholic priest, and now they carpool to their Monday night study together. There's a guy in my church who pastored his own churches for 35 years. He's now a fellow congregant and humbly serves; I even "led" him as a member of our Wednesday night small group.

Are those not the type of earthly leaders with followings you meant? Do you mean "higher-ups", like bishops, mega church pastors, etc? Or do you mean consolidated "sect" leaders?

quote:

quote:
No earthly leader who has developed a following wants to give that up.

Can you elaborate?

What I mean by that is that it's doctrinal differences that cause a split or schism among Christians. That isn't easily resolved.

Furthermore, once it happens its very difficult to put the two sects back together because they are each led by earthly creatures who enjoy their status as leaders.

@sigfreund This is something most pastors address, at some point or another.

Many denominational differences are not viewed as “serious.” (They are all in fellowship with one another.).

Those tend to differ in style/due to national origin/focuses.

(Some are more intellectual/others are more about music/charismatics etc.)

Most of the pastoral books (Titus/Timothy/etc) of the Bible address this, as it was a problem from the beginning, and it’s pretty clear that aside from genuine error, it’s not that critical.

Christianity is under such an intense social attack that now many denominations ignore meaningful theological differences (Eucharist, etc) in the face of basic threats - forced recognition of gay marriage and abortion.

CS Lewis’s, “Mere Christianity” may be interesting.

@chellim

I know quite a few happily retired pastors. I think if they have genuine faith, it’s a heavy burden which they are content to pass on.

I also think the administration of many larger entities are atheists.

The leadership of Rome is clearly infested with them, as are the mainline denominations in the U.S.

(To the current pope’s credit, he did take action against the rapists still left in authority.)

One of the reasons why I think our church works so well, is we have quite a few retired pastors/men who have led
Ministries etc and they are able to just focus on the best use of their gifts and our pastor - who is a good theologian - can focus on his academic work and sermons.

It also lets a relatively young pastor be a head pastor.

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
CS Lewis’s, “Mere Christianity” may be interesting.

Thanks, Aglifter, for all that. I am familiar with C.S. Lewis’ writings and have read that one as well as The Screwtape Letters.

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
A question: Does your church teach wariness of Christian outreach and evangelism efforts of other churches?

The question's inspiration: In my evangelism efforts, I have only been outright denied and/or turned-down five times in the last six months. Three of them were people (coincidentally all women) who had just the moment prior professed Christian faith.

When I encounter someone who "identifies" as Christian, says they attend church, etc, I either give them a tract that is authored to specifically target believers with it's message, or I give them a normal tract, and encourage them to enjoy reading it and then pass it on to someone else. I wager many of them need the normal tract anyway. I encounter folks who profess belief and say they attend church pretty regularly, as I live in rural NE Georgia.

Two of the aforementioned three women said something like "no, thank you, my church has it's own stuff for that." or "my church has it's own evangelism programs and literature."

I found it odd that they wouldn't take a tract just to be polite and friendly.

I am curious as to everyone's insight. Thanks!

Hindsight being 20/20, I should have asked them if I could see their tracts or other handouts. Had they not been able to produce any, I could've gently reminded them of Matthew 9:37...

"...The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few"

I certainly believe we need to hold each other accountable, as believers.

Honestly I think this stems from a lot of people's Spidey sense about salesmen and con artists more than opposition to your Christian beliefs.

I know I'm always on high alert for anyone trying to act friendly toward me in a public setting when I get the sense they are trying to sell me something.

Well, would your alert diminish, when you realize they're sharing the gospel, and not trying to sell you a product or service?

I find the initial barrier of the "spidey sense" fades quickly. I do perceive it, but folks warm up quick.

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
Well, would your alert diminish, when you realize they're sharing the gospel, and not trying to sell you a product or service?

I find the initial barrier of the "spidey sense" fades quickly. I do perceive it, but folks warm up quick.

I'd be more than happy to show you where the flaws in your tract are, but I don't think that'd be received well.

I was baptized, and broadly raised in the reformed tradition, I'm happy where I am and entirely disinclined to move to a Baptist or any other sort of church.

The thing is, in both cases, they didn't even see the tract in order to take issue with its contents. They would not take possession of it.

It's also worth mentioning that I DO NOT encourage anyone to abandon a church or denomination that differs from my own. If they say they go to a Christian church, I just encourage them to take the tract for fun, and to pass it along to someone else, if they so choose.

Here's two tracts I have been using recently. I'd like to hear what y'all think of them.

https://www.chick.com/products/tract?stk=1049&ue=d

https://www.chick.com/products/tract?stk=9&ue=d

I have mentioned the publisher before. I am selective in the tracts of theirs that I purchase and distribute.

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I can try to explain why I would refuse to accept a pamphlet being handed out by someone who knocked on my door even if I could somehow know that it would support my current beliefs about religion.

As I told a nonreligionist friend, I have gotten to the point that I know and have considered all the best arguments on both sides of the questions. I have studied and pondered them at length for literally decades. At this time even if someone could find a novel way of presenting something I had heard and thought about countless times, I would not be interested in hearing it—much less giving it any serious consideration.

Could I nevertheless accept a pamphlet just to be polite and then throw it away? Possibly, if I thought it would be the best way of terminating the encounter, but doing so would also be a dishonest implication that I was really interested and would give its contents at least some serious thought. I have of course been dishonest about countless more serious matters, but usually for more important motives, and by accepting such a pamphlet I might encourage further efforts to engage me which I wouldn’t want. If I wanted to be blunt (and probably wouldn’t be), I’d just say, “Thanks, man, but I’ve heard it all before so keep it and give it to someone who might be interested.”

Again, I can’t speak for anyone else, but the possibility that a Christian might (also) be thinking, “I don’t need any confirmation and validation of my beliefs; I’m right and I know I’m right,” or “No, you’re not going to change my mind,” strikes me as very likely.

Somewhat related, though, the confidence I have in my religious beliefs doesn’t mean I have no continuing interest in religious issues. I watch many videos about the history of early religious movements, religious texts, etc., and years ago when the JW missionaries came to my door I would accept their copies of Watchtower and then actually read them. Neither practice is because I have doubts about my own beliefs, but because I am curious about my fellow humans, or as Alexander Pope put it, ““The proper study of mankind is man.” And FWIW, that’s one of the reasons I am a member here: I have learned much about my fellow man—including from this thread.

@ KSGM, I think one of our challenges is seeing that Christ needs different presentations to different populations.

Those tracts are…. Not something which ever would have worked on me.

If I can find my laptop/figure out how to post just his sermon, I will post most recent sermon from our church.

The subject matter is not particularly germane, but it is a style which I respond to quite well..

Our pastor has multiple doctoral degrees, in history and medicine, as well as theology.

As such, we have a congregation which heavily skews “nerd,” and which approaches serious subjects in that fashion.

I grew up early on in a church that was big on the Chick tracts and know most of them well.

I don’t think they’re effective in this day and age and a lot of them are quite accusatory and work to scare people which isn’t going to work in 2026. Maybe in 1976.

I remember Chick Tracts. While I personally won’t use them today, I won’t dissuade someone from using it if they think it’s the bees knees.

My position is aligned with Paul. I try to be all things to all people whereby some might be saved. I think it even applies to the whole body of Christ. It’s what’s in the heart that counts, their intent. If they’re doing what they think is best to get people to have a saving faith in Jesus, God will honor that. For Christians, our experiences and personalities have made us who we are in order to share the gospel to those people who will respond. Each of us are unique weapons of mass salvation tailored for a specific type of nonbeliever. I won’t be able to connect with someone of a different type and vice versa. For example, someone who’s been into drugs or in trouble with the law and have gotten saved can certainly relate with someone going through that. They can say they know what that life is like but they got saved from that life. They can genuinely assure the nonbeliever that God can turn their life around as surely as God turned around the ex-drug addict. That saved ex-drug addict would have difficulty reaching out to a nonbeliever who has never done anything wrong. The nonbeliever’s attitude would be you needed that because you’re a mess; I’m an upright moral person and don’t need a savior. But a Christian who’s been a model citizen from their youth but still realized they’re a sinner in need of a savior would be the “perfect” witness to the second nonbeliever. I’m not saying believers shouldn’t witness to those they aren’t a good match; I’m just talking about effectiveness. We can all plant seeds, water, and at the opportune time, reap the harvest that others have planted and watered all along before we arrived.

For my wife and I, we like to give out pocket size New Testaments with Psalms and Proverbs. It has a help index in the front for help on issues that people may be dealing with and it gives the page besides chapter and verse. In the back is a prayer of commitment. For me, nothing is as good as the literal word of God itself. His word carries its own power and will not return void without accomplishing its purpose.

After I quit working, my wife and zi did two cross country drives. We would identify prospective people and offer it to them. Most often, it was restaurant people, hotel people, and restroom cleaners and clerks at the truck stops.

On our first drive, we gave out 200 of these books. We only had 3 rejections. One was clearly a non-believer who declined my wife but the next person my wife offered it to gladly received it. That one rejection was in the Biden welcome center in Biden’s home state. I just remembered it had his name; it was like a mini indoor mall with various food and souvenir stores. The other two professed they were Christians who sincerely wanted the bibles to be reserved for those who needed them.

We didn’t have all 200 bibles with us from the beginning. On the swing down back to California, we bought some more in the Gideons’ headquarters in Tennessee.

Sigfreund, I think you are exceptional. I think most adults, despite the decades they've had to ponder, have not pondered the way you have. I could be wrong, of course, but I think many adults have what they think is a firm position on something but, despite its veil of certainty, it's actually quite immature. As always, I find your contributions to the conversation very valuable.

Aglifter, I'd like to hear a sermon from your church. I hope you're able to share.

Concerning Chick tracts
I think the comic presentation is endearing. Their slogan is "Chick tracts get read". I think there's something to it. I also have some more generic "Romans Road" tracts. The front has that quoted title in large bold letters, and the inside is packed with text which includes plenty of scripture. I think it's likely that someone may open it up, see a wall of text, and then promptly shut it. The comic presentation makes the Chick tracts "page turners", in my opinion, and they have varying amounts of quoted scripture augmenting the stories. All that said, I was turned onto them by a man who grew up with them, so he likely has a nostalgic bias that PASig implied is a potential factor. I do agree that the "scare tactic" of the fear of hell is an imperfect approach, and the Chick tracts do lean on it often. I have been meaning to get some tracts from a publisher called "Living Waters". They have an ideal, IMO, approach of applying the law and making it clear that our condemnation is just. All this to say that I employ the Chick tracts because I think I'd have read one if it was given to me.

Rey HRH's post is spot-on. Isaiah 55:8-11 tells us that His word won't return unto Him void. Knowing this and applying prayer to our efforts before and after gives us confidence in their efficacy. I am the convert that wasn't recovered from the "bottom of the barrel". My conversion story isn't dramatic in the worldly-circumstance sense. At first, I was worried that this made my testimony weak and less effective in evangelism. I now know that's quite incorrect. As Rey said, God will use each unique individual in the most efficient way possible, in furtherance of His kingdom. While some evangelism experiences seem like "wins", and many feel like "losses", we know that they're all wins when we trust God. We can trust Him to use the encounter in a way that nudges the person nearer to Him, so long as we stay rooted in the truths of His word and are prayerful.

Thank you, men. It's always a pleasure discussing matters here.

Sermon starts at 24:09

https://www.youtube.com/live/F...?si=bvRPPkU9-QENVNK3

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
"Chick tracts get read".

It was certainly true of me.

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
Here's two tracts I have been using recently. I'd like to hear what y'all think of them.

https://www.chick.com/products/tract?stk=1049&ue=d

https://www.chick.com/products/tract?stk=9&ue=d

I have mentioned the publisher before. I am selective in the tracts of theirs that I purchase and distribute.

As an iconoclast I could not in good faith hold on to either of those.

Well, that is certainly understandable.