quote:

Originally posted by VBVAGUY:
Actually some scientist are now changing their minds again from thinking the universe is flat and endless; to now thinking the universe is round like a bubble that is expanding like a balloon. That if you travel one way, eventually you would arrive at the same place.

My question to all the flat earthers is with all our technology why has not the EDGE of the flat Earth been found or even shown ??? God Bless

The bubble theory seems to be the model du jour. You can't ever escape the bubble, because the closer you get to the edge the more circular your path becomes until you are moving along the outside, unable to venture further from the center.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Whatever shape the universe is, there is nothing outside of it. Not nothing as in empty space that might be filled someday, but nothing in the sense of no-space, no-time, no-nothing. In essence the universe is, by definition, all that there is. You cannot leave it.

Whose definition? Therein lies the crux.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Whatever shape the universe is, there is nothing outside of it. Not nothing as in empty space that might be filled someday, but nothing in the sense of no-space, no-time, no-nothing. In essence the universe is, by definition, all that there is. You cannot leave it.

This concept fascinates me.
Suppose you went out to the "edge" or furthestmost position of the universe and then pushed your spacecraft a little bit further out. I suppose that, by definition, you were still "in" the universe, and it had expanded a little ?
And I suppose that by virtue of the fields surrounding all matter, the universe has already expanded out a little beyond wherever you go, no matter how far out ?

quote:

Originally posted by Crom:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Whatever shape the universe is, there is nothing outside of it. Not nothing as in empty space that might be filled someday, but nothing in the sense of no-space, no-time, no-nothing. In essence the universe is, by definition, all that there is. You cannot leave it.

This concept fascinates me.
Suppose you went out to the "edge" or furthestmost position of the universe and then pushed your spacecraft a little bit further out. I suppose that, by definition, you were still "in" the universe, and it had expanded a little ?
And I suppose that by virtue of the fields surrounding all matter, the universe has already expanded out a little beyond wherever you go, no matter how far out ?

My grasp of theoretical physics and cosmology aren't that strong, but I don't think you can approach the edge - stuff is weird out there where the universe is still expanding at a high rate.

One of the mysteries, as I have read, is that the rate of expansion is actually accelerating, rather than decelerating as one would expect if matter was "exploded" outward.
The center of mass of any system always remains at the center, and the gravitational force, acting as if from the center of mass, should be pulling things back inward...decelerating them. Instead the universe is getting bigger even faster!
I agree that "weird stuff" is happening out there.

I am convinced that we (humans) will never have the real answer. It is so far beyond our level of understanding and the scope is so huge that it is beyond any scientific or religious explanation. Working on it for a few hundred or thousand more years won't get us any closer.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by Crom:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Whatever shape the universe is, there is nothing outside of it. Not nothing as in empty space that might be filled someday, but nothing in the sense of no-space, no-time, no-nothing. In essence the universe is, by definition, all that there is. You cannot leave it.

This concept fascinates me.
Suppose you went out to the "edge" or furthestmost position of the universe and then pushed your spacecraft a little bit further out. I suppose that, by definition, you were still "in" the universe, and it had expanded a little ?
And I suppose that by virtue of the fields surrounding all matter, the universe has already expanded out a little beyond wherever you go, no matter how far out ?

My grasp of theoretical physics and cosmology aren't that strong, but I don't think you can approach the edge - stuff is weird out there where the universe is still expanding at a high rate.

Good point. And what if you do reach the edge, what's on the other side?

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
- stuff is weird out there..

That's as good a theory as any!

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by Crom:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Whatever shape the universe is, there is nothing outside of it. Not nothing as in empty space that might be filled someday, but nothing in the sense of no-space, no-time, no-nothing. In essence the universe is, by definition, all that there is. You cannot leave it.

This concept fascinates me.
Suppose you went out to the "edge" or furthestmost position of the universe and then pushed your spacecraft a little bit further out. I suppose that, by definition, you were still "in" the universe, and it had expanded a little ?
And I suppose that by virtue of the fields surrounding all matter, the universe has already expanded out a little beyond wherever you go, no matter how far out ?

My grasp of theoretical physics and cosmology aren't that strong, but I don't think you can approach the edge - stuff is weird out there where the universe is still expanding at a high rate.

Good point. And what if you do reach the edge, what's on the other side?

There is no "other side." It isn't just something else or a void - it is no-thing.

Maximillian!




Link to original video: https://youtu.be/KZWttTwPl_Y

My freshman physics prof told a joke that is the only thing I remember about physics except to never become a physician.
to wit:

In a physics class a prof told the class that the universe although infinite in space was not infinite in time and calculations at the time estimated that it would wink out of exisistence in about 300 billion years.

A freshman leaped out of his desk in near hysteria, yelling at the class "don't you all understand? We are all going to die. How can you just sit there?

The prof told him to calm down, everything would be alright, and it was 300 billion years off anyway.

The kid, visibly relieved, sat down and said. Oh thank goodness, I thought you said 300 MILLION.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Whatever shape the universe is, there is nothing outside of it. Not nothing as in empty space that might be filled someday, but nothing in the sense of no-space, no-time, no-nothing. In essence the universe is, by definition, all that there is. You cannot leave it.

If it's not infinite, then it stops somewhere. What is beyond where it stops?

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Whatever shape the universe is, there is nothing outside of it. Not nothing as in empty space that might be filled someday, but nothing in the sense of no-space, no-time, no-nothing. In essence the universe is, by definition, all that there is. You cannot leave it.

If it's not infinite, then it stops somewhere. What is beyond where it stops?

Good point. I don't think anyone can answer that from firsthand knowledge.

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Whatever shape the universe is, there is nothing outside of it. Not nothing as in empty space that might be filled someday, but nothing in the sense of no-space, no-time, no-nothing. In essence the universe is, by definition, all that there is. You cannot leave it.

If it's not infinite, then it stops somewhere. What is beyond where it stops?

Good point. I don't think anyone can answer that from firsthand knowledge.

It blows my mind to think about it though. We have no idea where we are.

The biggest question is what exists outside of our expanding universe. Mind boggling.

What if our universe is but one bubble in an endless space filled with universes. Some might be like ours but others might be very different with things so strange we wouldn't know what we're looking at. Of course the distances we're talking about I'm not sure our mathematics even have a number to describe it.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
If it's not infinite, then it stops somewhere. What is beyond where it stops?

The way I understand it, not necessarily accurately, but the way that makes sense to me, is a Zen-Buddhist related concept:

The "universe" is everything. Literally every THING. But "thing" includes every particle, every electromagnetic wave, and every field of every kind.

The "outside" of the universe is no-thing, which is, by definition, "nothing". But it is a void...a void of literal nothingness.
"Void" is a word we use to describe "nothing", but it is not another "thing" called "void". It has no boundary, because it is nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Whatever shape the universe is, there is nothing outside of it. Not nothing as in empty space that might be filled someday, but nothing in the sense of no-space, no-time, no-nothing. In essence the universe is, by definition, all that there is. You cannot leave it.

If it's not infinite, then it stops somewhere. What is beyond where it stops?

You and your Newtonian, 3 dimensional thinking. There is no thing, no space, and no time outside the universe. There is no "outside the universe."

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
Whatever shape the universe is, there is nothing outside of it. Not nothing as in empty space that might be filled someday, but nothing in the sense of no-space, no-time, no-nothing. In essence the universe is, by definition, all that there is. You cannot leave it.

Unless our universe is part of a multiverse.

ETA:
The Universe is "locally" flat, much like the Earth is. IOW it takes a great distance on the Earth to perceive it's curvature. It's the same with the Universe.

When saying the Universe is round, it's more correct to say it's closed. That meaning if you travel far enough in a fixed direction, you will end up at the point you started at. There are shapes, other than spheres, upon who's surfaces you can do this. For example, a torus (donut shape).

You guys are pondering the unanswerable. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you realize you can't ever know the truth of it.