I didn't know this was a thing. Wonder what the accuracy's like.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
I didn't know this was a thing. Wonder what the accuracy's like.

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At that distance…
Guys on the side of vehicle:
Laying effective fire down
Driver of said vehicle:
Shooting for pew pew sakes.
What’s the spread one foot in front of him, about 6”? Push that out 50-100 yards or wherever BG was, not good…

About 25 to 50 foot diameter spread.

How big a feller were they'ah shootin'?

If you have someone standing on your hood, that would be a good tactic (if your vehicle was off at the time.) It seems to have become en vogue since the LVMPD shooting. Nobody much talks about all the aerosolized glass particles you're breathing in.

Deflection of bullets through tempered windshield glass is significant. (There's a whole portion of the popular Vehicle CQB class for LEOs that covers this, as well as demonstrates it in real time on junked vehicles.)

Potentially useful if the threat is just past your bumper. Not really much past that, until/unless you fire enough rounds to port a sufficiently wide hole in the glass that the bullets stop being deflected. Which that deputy did not achieve, even with the dozen+ rounds he fired.

So he made a lot of smoke and noise, and made the county buy him a new windshield, but the chances of even one of his rounds being effective are minimal.

quote:

Originally posted by DetonicsMk6:
Nobody much talks about all the aerosolized glass particles you're breathing in.

Or the glass shards in your eyes.

In one of my Vehicle CQB classes, we had a student get a glass shard in his eye despite wearing safety glasses. It snuck in through the upper gap between the frame and his brow.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
So he made a lot of smoke and noise, and made the county buy him a new windshield, but the chances of even one of his rounds being effective are minimal.

Yeah, but he looked like a super cool bad ass operator while doing it. So there's that.

For us regular folks, the kind of situation where we'd consider shooting through a windshield or window wouldn't be like the one in the video. It would likely be an attacker right up on us.

Statistically, perps retreat nearly always upon encountering armed resistance. Accuracy isn't vital in those cases. If someone is at my side window or at my bumper that needs to be shot at, deflection would have to be massive to miss them.

Just keep shooting through the same hole.

Wonder they didn’t shoot each other. And that’s what we have (protecting) us?

quote:

Originally posted by MikeGLI:
Just keep shooting through the same hole.

Yep. That helps out a lot with accuracy, velocity, and eliminating bullet deformation. Safety glass in vehicles eats up bullets.

I have taken several vehicle assault and vehicle cqb classes. Of the classes I have taken these are still my favorite. Rogue is correct beyond the bumper w/ a handgun both in and out of car not ideal. Now, obviously w/ a rifle, especially a .308 things work better for you.

I had a class where if you are in the car and had to shoot out make your holes closed and then shove your pistol through. It works. More accurate and your bullets are now not all deformed and being deflected. Worked out well. It will scrape the hell out of your Roscoe obviously. I have a Glock and a TLR1HL that have the scars. I still carry that TLR.

Also, we had to wear safety glasses and thick masks when shooting from inside the vehicles.

On top of everything else mentiond, shots through windshield glass go high. You have to shoot lower than you normally would so at that distance the vehicle shooter missed high and wide.

(I didn't watch the video.) It could be necessary to shoot through a windshield, but they are made of laminated plastic and tempered glass. Handgun bullets and even buckshot have a hard time punching through. This would mean the assailant is directly in front of you, would it not? Would it not be more efficient to just run over or squash the guy?

All in all, these cops weren’t terrible. They at least tried to adhere to some basic principles.

But, they also exhibited a lot of traits that show they don’t possess the necessary hard skills. But, cultivating hard skills is difficult because it takes time and money. They slung an awful lot of lead that never connected.

We were just discussing likely scenarios for John Q. Citizen to sling lead. Carjacking is one of these likely scenarios, and you don't need to be driving a 90,000 dollar automobile to be targeted. Many times, we've seen helicopter video of some crazed asshole fleeing the police attempt to carjack some poor random driver who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Why can't that be you? It can be you. Random chance will decide.

The chance I'll ever have to shoot through my windshield is almost immeasurably small, but if someone approaches me in my vehicle with intent, I just might have to put rounds through the driver-side window of my truck. This glass is more perpendicular to the pavement and the shots would likely strike it at a less oblique angle. That's good. The glass is closer to my face than the windshield. That's bad.

Yes, spalled glass will aerosolize and I may inhale it, but more important in the moment will be spalled fragments striking me in the face and eyes.

In the daytime, I wear sunglasses, but at night, my eyes are unprotected. A set of ballistic eyewear with clear lenses would be the answer. This is something to consider.

Firing a handgun within the confines of a truck cab which has the windows rolled up would almost certainly result in a certain amount of permanent hearing loss, but this, along with the issues mentioned above are insignificant when the alternative is being killed or grievously wounded by one of society's parasites, and I've made my choice.

Some time ago here in the forum, I lamented that I've never had the opportunity to shoot through auto glass while seated in an automobile. It's not the kind of thing one wants to first experience in the critical moment, but I'll do my best.

Like Rogue said, bullets deflect. Badly. We tried this out with a full-size silhouette about 7 yards in front of the car and couldn't reliably put hits on paper. Your best bet is to shoot a hole in the windshield and then shoot through that. Or better yet, find some other way to avoid having to shoot through the windshield.

Side windows are not only more perpendicular, but many of them are made of safety glass which shatters, unlike the laminated glass of your windshield. Newer cars are starting to go to laminated side-windows too, though, so that makes it a little more difficult. I'd say the angles involved still make it a better choice, assuming you're shooting straight on.

The glass fragments flying around inside are a thing. It's almost aerosolized dust. It sucks, but if you're actually taking rounds you probably won't care. In one training I was in a car with a buddy, I was in the passenger seat with my 16" M400 and he was in the driver seat with his 11" MPX. And we simultaneously dumped 10 rounds each through the windshield. I'm not sure what that was supposed to teach us except that between the deflection caused by the windshield glass and the incredibly disorienting muzzle blast and glass cloud you're probably not going to hit shit.

quote:

Originally posted by

, I was in the passenger seat with my 16" M400 and he was in the driver seat with his 11" MPX. And we simultaneously dumped 10 rounds each through the windshield. I'm not sure what that was supposed to teach us except that between the deflection caused by the windshield glass and the incredibly disorienting muzzle blast and glass cloud you're probably not going to hit shit.

For several days ...

Well based on the opinions of known LEO here and LEO I know, the basic training idea is shoot in the general direction of the target until you have a measurable hole in the windshield you can reliably shoot through. I think that tracks with any situation where they try to introduce fancy minute skills (picking an angle of a bullet off glass while in the middle of a gun battle) VS the macro (blast a hole and revert to standard firearms training).

We had a bunch of old cars and we tried shooting into and out of the cars to see how things worked. The 357SIGs seemed to do the best through the windshields.

But anyways, a neighboring PD had a pursuit come through and crash and the guy came out and tried to shoot. the officer shot him through the windshield with no problems and ended it. I think they were issued Glock 22s at the time.

Just some tips for shooting through windows, bullets typically follow the angle of the window if its front windshield/laminated so make sure you arent hitting people two blocks away. Its not bad if BG is close to your vehicle but you can sail one over BGs shoulder if they are even a few feet away.

Make sure you close your mouth or it will be filled with tiny glass particles and you will chew it for a bit. I don't even want to know what it has done to my lungs.