My oldest daughter has Aspergers. She is quite bright and does well in everything but math. It’s like she is hearing two separate foreign languages at the same time when she does math. We have tried lots of different things while in school but nothing seems to work. She is now in college and but for math would be doing very well. As we’ve tried about everything, we are hoping the SIGforum brain trust might have some suggestions that would work for a student who is capable in every area but math. She can write (very well), reading is not a problem, science works OK, has friends, sings, etc. But math, nope, nada, can’t get it done. And without math, no college degree. So in desperation - HELP! What works to help get someone through the basic requirements for college math?
Thanks!
BB61

My problem is the "noise" and all of my brains go into "runaway random shit" mode. Each brain wants to "un-BORG" and do individual stuff.

I do not know why.

When I was first learning fractions, I could do them almost instantaneously and it was a "game" to stand at the blackboard with anyone and challenge them.

Someone would call out fractions and we would write and reduce them. No one could beat me.

When I hit algebra, I could not get very far. But I am able to solve all manner of "math problems" almost intuitively, but working the out or explaining how I solve them, is almost impossible.

I can "see" things in multiple ways in my head, with all manner of physics, geometry, calculus and 3D, but out it in black and white, mathematical equations, and I might as will be juggling pudding.

I tried everything except getting a good math tutor.

So, have her be evaluated by someone (or several) who can help her identify where her trouble is specifically (if that is possible). (As there is typically no, "one thing", that is the cause of her difficulties.

Finding the solution, is identifying the problem.

Ironically...

I wish her the best of luck.

How is her basic logic abilities? Does she have a mental block about math, that has nothing to do with her abilities? Some math instruction just plain sucks, and she may be hung up do to an improper approach to the subject. If she views math as an exercise in memorization, she is approaching it the wrong way.

Anecdote: Many years ago, I was teaching physics for pre-meds. I had a student ask if she could come to my office hours, even though I wasn't her instructor, because she just couldn't connect with her own instructor. She was getting a low "C" grade, which is death to an aspiring MD. Assuming she was like most students, I proceeded to work problems for her, show her the formulae, etc. Finally, she responded that she understood that part, but she was confused on the over all picture. Once we changed the approach to the subject, I realized she was simply baffled and intimidated by the image of Newton having an apple fall on his head, and then all this complicated science came out. Once we worked through the history of the developments, and that is took hundreds of years of effort to get to the point Newton could come up with his 3 laws, she felt less intimidated. She went on to be a nearly perfect student through the rest of the course, and I am proud to know that is is currently a practicing MD. All she needed was some context to the subject to allow her to wrap her mind around it.

I tutor my 12yo son every day in math, and though his skills are quite good, sometimes the approach given in class doesn't click for him. So, I also present him several ways to look at it, and let him choose the method that works best. Sometimes, he prefers the teacher's method to mine, sometimes my approach makes more sense.

If she hasn't already, your daughter might hire a tutor that do the same thing for her.

Best bet is to find a local support group and there will be resources. My neighbors kid has this as well, first year of college for her son, and the support group was a godsend once she found it.

Many colleges make exceptions for students who have documented disabilites. It usually requires evaluation by a clinical psychologist who would administer various tests and make reccomendations which would help in making accomodations for her. If you do not go that route, most colleges have active tutoring programs open to both students and student athletes who are having difficulty.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
When I was first learning fractions, I could do them almost instantaneously and it was a "game" to stand at the blackboard with anyone and challenge them.

Someone would call out fractions and we would write and reduce them. No one could beat me.

What's 37 3/8 divided by 2?

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
My problem is the "noise" and all of my brains go into "runaway random shit" mode. Each brain wants to "un-BORG" and do individual stuff.

Mine does this too, but only at 2:15 in the morning.

If she has a nonlinear thought process, math would be either tricky or incredibly simple depending on how the subject is/was being presented. Either way it would make it difficult to engage the topic at hand.

Re: “Math experts, educators, Aspergers experts, etc.”

That’s a rather broad “etc”.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
Re: “Math experts, educators, Aspergers experts, etc.”

That’s a rather broad “etc”.

The (near) perfect compliment to assist in this issue.

Without going into "TimeCube" universe of explanation, many with ASD are have multiple relational and global thinking patterns, where past, present future thoughts, memories and ideas occur simultaneously, or in "multi-threading" fashion.

It's more like a multi core computer processor in multi-tasking with branch thinking running multiple programs.

When in focus (often a self learned trait), the ability to accomplish things that appear pretty spectacular to others can be observed, and when out of focus, just getting a bowl, cereal, milk and spoon to the point one can eat, can be a challenge.

The "discovery" of "why" (the type of) math is difficult, is more likely going to be a combination of issues that need to be understood before the person is going to be able to start getting past the "block".

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
Re: “Math experts, educators, Aspergers experts, etc.”

That’s a rather broad “etc”.

The (near) perfect compliment to assist in this issue.

Without going into "TimeCube" universe of explanation, many with ASD are have multiple relational and global thinking patterns, where past, present future thoughts, memories and ideas occur simultaneously, or in "multi-threading" fashion.

It's more like a multi core computer processor in multi-tasking with branch thinking running multiple programs.

When in focus (often a self learned trait), the ability to accomplish things that appear pretty spectacular to others can be observed, and when out of focus, just getting a bowl, cereal, milk and spoon to the point one can eat, can be a challenge.

The "discovery" of "why" (the type of) math is difficult, is more likely going to be a combination of issues that need to be understood before the person is going to be able to start getting past the "block".

What would you suggest? Testing with a neuro psychologist? What kind of testing? I understandand you are not treating but commenting on a message board but suggestions would be appreciated.

Nothing to offer, just wishing the best for your daughter. Let's just say I heavily relate to her struggle.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:...

What would you suggest? Testing with a neuro psychologist? What kind of testing? I understandand you are not treating but commenting on a message board but suggestions would be appreciated.

Has she been tested/evaluated, has/is she been in any programs or behavioral therapy, any medication?

If, "yes", then I would seek those who have been involved for some guidance.

And that can go a long way, if documented, (as other's mentioned) with making allowances in the education system in addressing learning issues.

Since ASD is such a varied issue with each individual, any and all real ground gained will be personal/specific to her needs.

quote:

What would you suggest? Testing with a neuro psychologist? What kind of testing? I understandand you are not treating but commenting on a message board but suggestions would be appreciated.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
A clinical psychologist who does comprehensive psychological evaluations should fit the bill. Standard IQ and achievment testing should be sufficent with a good clinical interview to assess personality dynamics. Larger universities have clinics on site that do this sort of thing.

Bump.

Thanks all. We are working with some of the suggestions both on the forum and one privately - which already exposed an area we can work with her on.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

quote:

What would you suggest? Testing with a neuro psychologist? What kind of testing? I understandand you are not treating but commenting on a message board but suggestions would be appreciated.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
A clinical psychologist who does comprehensive psychological evaluations should fit the bill. Standard IQ and achievment testing should be sufficent with a good clinical interview to assess personality dynamics. Larger universities have clinics on site that do this sort of thing.

I did this with each of my children. My oldest has a "Executive Processing Disorder" that really only showed itself when she began Algebra. She needed lots of time and HOURS of practice to begin to understand how to organize and solve mathematical equations. Before the diagnosis I was beginning to believe my daughter was TRYING to fail math AND make me insane.

Any updates?

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Nothing to offer, just wishing the best for your daughter. Let's just say I heavily relate to her struggle.

Big plus one for me too. I and my daughter are both on the spectrum and we can see complex systems and data as easy to read patterns that astonished my wife but as Monkey said, some days we struggle with fixing ourselves a bowl of cereal. Pretty weird stuff.
Best of luck to your daughter. She's not alone.

Edit to add that a lot of folks with asd can also have anxiety or attention deficit disorders as well. That could very well be a stumbling block to learning math if she is undiagnosed in any of those areas.

quote:

Originally posted by Keystoner:
What's 37 3/8 divided by 2?

18 11/16.

flashguy

I think college students can be put on a 504 plan just as in high school or grade school. Ask the counselors about this. Once they asr on a 504 they really can't let you fail. They will tailor a plan to help your daughter be successful. Good luck!