quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Uh, no. Most cars on the street today have fairly sophisticated ECM's to adjust virtually ever aspect of the vehicle's ignition system. I'm sure the ECM could adequately adjust for temperature deviation without the need to reformulate the vehicle's fuel.

IMO this summer/winter blend crap is total BS (maybe it had some relevance 30 years ago when cars still had carburetors), Just smoke and mirrors created by EPA and the petroleum lobbyists.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

1. The petroleum industry does not lobby for summer grade and winter grade gasoline. This is a huge pain in our ass cost us money and it takes us away from doing productive things.

2. You live in Florida. There are parts of the country that actually have four seasons. It makes a huge difference having winter grade gasoline in the further north climates. You cannot bend the laws of physics with electronics.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
My already way-too-expensive gallon of gas jumped from $2.35-2.40 here in PA to $2.60 in less than 48 hours.

What's the latest excuse?

How many hundred gasoline price posts can one man make? Every one of your threads goes the same way. Sigforumites look up articles and post (usually from AAA - hint, hint, hint), but you seemingly learn nothing. Rinse and repeat.

I have explained the winter summer phenomenal ad nausea over the years. Other years, I have included maps, charts, tables, etc. I think I know how Tacfoley feels repeatedly explaining UK gun laws.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:
You have no idea what you're talking about.

1. The petroleum industry does not lobby for summer grade and winter grade gasoline. This is a huge pain in our ass cost us money and it takes us away from doing productive things.

2. You live in Florida. There are parts of the country that actually have four seasons. It makes a huge difference having winter grade gasoline in the further north climates. You cannot bend the laws of physics with electronics.

This is not sarcasm so please do not take it as such as your knowledge of the petroleum industry far out strips mine. When did all this different blends nonsense begin? I could Google it, but its easier to simply ask. How did cars in northern climates survive prior to blended fuel? I'm not suggesting that blended fuel doesn't aid ignition burn in cold climates, but do the costs of producing/providing it on a nationwide basis outweigh its added benefit(s) given the consumer is going to be picking up the tab for these changeover? The petro companies aren't going to eat that bill, nor should they. This whole blended thing just smacks of good ole fashioned government meddling, and I'd bet today's lunch that government in the only entity in this equation that truly benefits significantly from this 'requirement'.

And just so we're clear, I've never believed this to be a petro industry issue/problem, but yet another one created by governments.

Bigdeal,

Winter grade is the conventional gasoline (aka C-BOB) and reformulated (R-BOB) is the newer gasoline formulation (ie no issue historically in northern climates because everyone used conventional grade gasoline yeararound). Federally, summer grade gasoline law passed in '89 and implemented in 90s. I actually had to look this one up because it was already in place when I joined the industry in 1993.

You did touch on one issue that I had mentioned in previous years. The issue is the system not just implemented federally, but is also implemented by some states (eg California). The United States has over 20 blends of gasoline when there should only be six (I'm a proponent of four - premium winter, premium summer, regular winter, and regular summer). There are actually two different Low RVP standards 9.0 and 7.8 mandated by the EPA and 7.8 is mandated on the county level not the PADD level. When you have 20 grades of gasoline it makes the market even tighter during spring conversion from wintergrade to summer grade. 20 grades of gasoline also amplifies the impact on the refinery outages, pipeline outages, etc. because sometimes you have to transport gasoline great distances because adjacent areas do not make that gasoline.

California air resources board is a good example of something starting off good but going completely off the rails. Over their 40 year history, help get lead out of gasoline, helped set emission standards, helped with advent of low RVP gasoline, etc. My former boss (who just retired) told me stories of the 1980s when Los Angeles used to have a brown cloud over it and reformulated gasoline is one the ways they are now only a light yellow cloud over it (in other words, there is merit to it but they have screwed it up). However, now they have gone off the deep end with all kinds of wacky climate change pseudoscience. They have also pulled genius moves like adopting a proprietary, patented gasoline blending process from Unocal which forced every refinery in the state of California to pay Unocal royalties. Then, that system had water contamination issues so they made the whole California industry switch over to ethanol.

It's a huge EPA and state DNR issue that I hope the Trump administration tackles.

~Todd

Summer blend? I have a foot of snow on the ground and it's still snowing!

quote:

The United States has over 20 blends of gasoline when there should only be six (I'm a proponent of four - premium winter, premium summer, regular winter, and regular summer). There are actually two different Low RVP standards 9.0 and 7.8 mandated by the EPA and 7.8 is mandated on the county level not the PADD level. When you have 20 grades of gasoline it makes the market even tighter during spring conversion from wintergrade to summer grade. 20 grades of gasoline also amplifies the impact on the refinery outages, pipeline outages, etc. because sometimes you have to transport gasoline great distances because adjacent areas do not make that gasoline.

As I recall, Romney made this issue one of his campaign points and said that if elected that he would streamline this and end the "boutique" fuels. I never heard anything regarding this in the last election, but I hope it's on Trump's list - maybe in his EPA overhaul?

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
My already way-too-expensive gallon of gas jumped from $2.35-2.40 here in PA to $2.60 in less than 48 hours.

What's the latest excuse?

How many hundred gasoline price posts can one man make? Every one of your threads goes the same way. Sigforumites look up articles and post (usually from AAA - hint, hint, hint), but you seemingly learn nothing. Rinse and repeat.

I have explained the winter summer phenomenal ad nausea over the years. Other years, I have included maps, charts, tables, etc. I think I know how Tacfoley feels repeatedly explaining UK gun laws.

No one forced you to read the thread, douchebag.


Maybe I should have just posted in the "what's your bitch" section to keep you from crying?

Play nice kids...................

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
My already way-too-expensive gallon of gas jumped from $2.35-2.40 here in PA to $2.60 in less than 48 hours.

What's the latest excuse?

Elders of Zion, Illuminati, and the Freemasons.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:

You have no idea what you're talking about.

This is the internet, for Christ's sake. When is not knowing what you are talking about a barrier?

Okay, I have a practical question. I keep about 100 liters of gasoline in NATO jerries for emergencies. Stuff like running a generator, bug out gas for truck. Every year I rotate the gas. Should I be doing this during the summer or winter months? I.e., what is the generic gas I should keep on hand, summer or winter? BTW, I keep ethanol free "clear gas" for this purpose. It looks pink and even tastes the same as I remember gas from my youth.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
My already way-too-expensive gallon of gas jumped from $2.35-2.40 here in PA to $2.60 in less than 48 hours.

What's the latest excuse?

How many hundred gasoline price posts can one man make? Every one of your threads goes the same way. Sigforumites look up articles and post (usually from AAA - hint, hint, hint), but you seemingly learn nothing. Rinse and repeat.

I have explained the winter summer phenomenal ad nausea over the years. Other years, I have included maps, charts, tables, etc. I think I know how Tacfoley feels repeatedly explaining UK gun laws.

No one forced you to read the thread, douchebag.


Maybe I should have just posted in the "what's your bitch" section to keep you from crying?

I have as much respect for gasoline gouging conspiracy theorists as I do for flat earth conspiracy theorists.

Get a new hobby besides posting about gasoline prices...

^^^^^^^^^^^^


Since this topic got waaaaaaaaaay too serious...

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Okay, I have a practical question. I keep about 100 liters of gasoline in NATO jerries for emergencies. Stuff like running a generator, bug out gas for truck. Every year I rotate the gas. Should I be doing this during the summer or winter months? I.e., what is the generic gas I should keep on hand, summer or winter? BTW, I keep ethanol free "clear gas" for this purpose. It looks pink and even tastes the same as I remember gas from my youth.

Good question, but tough to answer when your location says "Utah" which has both mountains and deserts.

Maybe this will help. For my generator:

When I lived in Alaska, I bought my gasoline in the winter since it would work year around and with the cool summers and anti-emission caps it wouldn't lose much in summer. We basically had 9 months of winter.

In Houston, I buy my gas in the summer right before hurricane season. It doesn't get cold enough for me to worry about it in winter and it'll last better in the 9 months of summer.

---

Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.

Thank you tatortodd.

I was getting ready to write a couple of things but you covered them all for me and then ALOT more.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
My already way-too-expensive gallon of gas jumped from $2.35-2.40 here in PA to $2.60 in less than 48 hours.

What's the latest excuse?

Elders of Zion, Illuminati, and the Freemasons.

AND the Trilateral Commission

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:

Get a new hobby besides posting about gasoline prices...

Again...

NO ONE FORCED YOU TO READ OR FOLLOW MY THREAD.

If I feel like bitching about gas prices going up, that's my choice.

We are already getting SCREWED in the ass in PA for about 58 cents a gallon that was promised to all go to the roads and bridges. Here we are 4 years into in, our roads and bridges are STILL falling apart and the PA State Police is sitting fat and happy with a 1.3 BILLION $ budget all from the money siphoned off from this state gas tax. There's more to our situation than just summer blend switching.